Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/TryBishop

TryBishop

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TryBishop (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Doesn't meet the notability guidelines for inclusion. Most of the footnoted sources don't even mention him, and the others are just lyrics and data listings, and a couple of bare mentions. A Google search turns up nothing to meet WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO. Largoplazo (talk) 01:45, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• Keep, qualifies for WP:GNG. His name appears in Vernia (album) and Auburn (singer) and T-Pain discography, and most of the featured artists in those three articles have their own articles too. Might as well delete dozens of those other articles for failing notability, but apparently they do not. Insularism (talk) 01:52, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• If they fail the guidelines, then they fail the guidelines, and those articles should be deleted too. See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. It seems unlikely that one's name appearing on an album that isn't one's own album is on its own going to establish notability. Largoplazo (talk) 02:00, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• I am a hip hop fan who writes articles only about the artists and producers whom I feel are notable, so I am not being reckless. TryBishop's peers who are clearly on the same level of notability as him have their own Wikipedia articles too.
• Are you saying we should nominate everything else for deletion then? By your criteria, half of all hip hop artists and producers on Wikipedia fail this policy, which is inherently unclear. Should I help you nominate everything else for deletion then? Let's take WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and WP:GNG seriously and see half of all Wikipedia hip-hop articles get deleted. I'm ready to help you out on this one. Insularism (talk) 02:05, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• I'm saying that every article about a non-notable topic is subject to deletion, with notability defined through Wikipedia's guidelines on the subject. That isn't my opinion, that's a statement of Wikipedia's policy that articles be about notable topics. If there are other artists you feel inclined, in good faith, to nominate for deletion based on a failure to meet the guidelines, you should do so. Largoplazo (talk) 02:21, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• I know this subject meets notability guidelines. I just read through them, like the biographical ones and singer ones. And explain WP:GNG to me. Its totally vague and unclear. We should go through Wikipedia:WikiProject Hip Hop and flood this Articles for Deletion thing or whatever it's called, and see the whole project get destroyed. Insularism (talk) 02:25, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
• Tell me, which ones do not qualify for WP:GNG: 1500 or Nothin', Da Internz, Curtis Williams, Tech N9ne, Beatnick, Wrekonize, K-Salaam, Christopher Dotson, Vernia, Erick Sermon. I bet some of them don't. Tell me which ones specifically do not follow this vague, weird guideline. Some of them have junk references. Insularism (talk) 02:30, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• I am very familiar with the Midwest hip-hop scene. You and most other Wikipedia members are not. I know who is notable and who is not in this niche. TryBishop is on par with many other hip-hop artists with Wikipedia articles. This is an obvious fact. I know for certain that this article does not deserve deletion. I know better than to write up an article about some random wannabe rapper kid with no online presence. Do the research for yourself. Insularism (talk) 02:36, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• WP:GNG says, "Reliable" means that sources need editorial integrity to allow verifiable evaluation of notability. CHECK.
• WP:GNG says, "Sources" should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability. CHECK.
• WP:GNG "Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by the article's subject or someone affiliated with it. CHECK.
• WP:GNG "Presumed" means that significant coverage in reliable sources creates an assumption, not a guarantee, CHECK.
• Notable? CHECK. That's how I know this is a keep. You, on the other hand, did not actually read the fine print in WP:GNG, did you? I know how to write neutral, reliable articles about hip-hop artists. I know which ones deserve articles and which ones do not. I know which ones are notable and which ones are not. Insularism (talk) 02:41, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• TryBishop has YouTube videos with over a million views. He has worked very closely with T-Pain and Jeezy. And so many other top rappers. Anyone who actually knows something about the hip-hop scene would be pretty darn sure that TryBishop is "notable," not just another wannabe rapper kid. Insularism (talk) 02:48, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• You won't find that Wikipedia lists "I know this field and you don't" among the notability criterion. If people in the field find him noteworthy, then we need evidence of that, which will generally be in the form of "significant coverage" of the subject in multiple sources meeting the above criteria—among which you omitted "significant coverage", yet that criterion is indispensable. As I said earlier, "Most of the footnoted sources don't even mention him, and the others are just lyrics and data listings, and a couple of bare mentions". Largoplazo (talk) 02:57, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• We do have significant coverage. Check the references and check online. And you understand what Wikipedia is? Wikipedia is an encyclopedia where the goal is to collaborate on writing up notable topics of use to its intended audience. TryBishop's article is useful to people who are reading about hip hop in the Midwest. He is considered notable by people who would even care to read about such articles in the first place. That is the whole purpose and point of WP:GNG, which is to let us know that we should constructively build a useful encyclopedia that wouldn't be drowned out by random articles about non-notable high school rappers. This article is certainly useful to anyone interested in Midwest hip-hop. And check the Wikipedia:WikiProject Hip Hop page. I am ready to go through all of Wikipedia's policies to show you why this article deserves to be kept. To anyone involved in Midwest hip-hop, this is common sense. Insularism (talk) 03:05, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• Please read Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_bureaucracy - In building consensus, there are times when everyone will argue that such or such change breaks their preferred rule and thus simply can't be made. It's a good time to apply the WP:Ignore all rules policy and focus on how the proposed change makes the encyclopedia better regardless of what the rules say.
• Please read Wikipedia:You can't follow all the rules, all the time - While Wikipedia's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused. Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policies without consideration for their principles. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them.
• Please read Notability in the English Wikipedia and Deletionism and inclusionism in Wikipedia. And many more guidelines and essays on Wikipedia.
• Like you, I am volunteering to improve this online encyclopedia. The guidelines listed above are just as valid as WP:GNG, because the purpose of these guidelines is to help us improve Wikipedia. Fanatical deletionism does not help Wikipedia improve in any way. Insularism (talk) 03:15, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• TryBishop is useful and notable enough for people who are coming onto Wikipedia to find out more about Midwest hip-hop. This article makes a positive contribution to the encyclopedia. Do not let literal interpretations of vague rules like prevent us from making this little part of Wikipedia useful to its intended audience. Insularism (talk) 03:20, 28 May 2019 (UTC)