Talk:Saaho

Sources

Cite reliable sources. 16:52, 25 April 2017 User:Knand61

Chunky Pandey name in star cast you not added Allu Arjun (Hussain) (talk) 16:39, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Redirect

In this edit I redirected the article to Sujeeth as was previously done by Balablitz here. There was no effort made to establish that the film had begun principal photography, which is Film Article 101. Per WP:NFF:

Films that have not been confirmed by reliable sources to have commenced principal photography should not have their own articles, as budget issues, scripting issues and casting issues can interfere with a project well ahead of its intended filming date. The assumption should also not be made that because a film is likely to be a high-profile release it will be immune to setbacks—there is no "sure thing" production. Until the start of principal photography, information on the film might be included in articles about its subject material, if available. Sources must be used to confirm the start of principal photography after shooting has begun. (Emphasis theirs)

When editors can establish that principal photography has begun, the article may be restored. Thanks. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:34, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Redirect #2

In this edit, I again redirected the article to Prabhas. Per this source, filming has not begun, which means that WP:NFF has not been established. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:33, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

About the language

It is first shot in Telugu because the actor and director are from telugu speaking states, then simultaneously they do it in Hindi,tamil, Malayalam.They don't do it from Hindi please correct that! Blackcashew (talk) 05:41, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

--Please revert back to using Telugu on top in the "languages" section. Kindly show Telugu as the first language as the industry making this movie is Telugu (UV productions). Please look at pages of movies such as the great wall. This was a Chinese production and although it had Matt Damon, Jing Tian, Pedro Pascal, Willem Dafoe. The page shows it as a Chinese movie. Please follow — Preceding unsigned comment added by Precisepie (talk • contribs) 00:19, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: What do you think? Is it reasonable to list the ethnic industry first? This was something we decided to do at Baahubali: The Beginning, mostly to stop the obnoxious "give my ethnic film industry credit!" whining. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 01:37, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Probably a South Asian thing to think the "first one" is the most important unlike in places like US where "last but not the least" / "and finally the most important" is also the norm. It is not about Hindi being first. I've seen people putting Tamil first and Telugu last as well in this article. Not only that, in BLP articles also people bring in this "Telugu or Tamil" thing. On a serious note,

1. These sources 1 and 2 list the languages as "Telugu, Tamil and Hindi" and "Tamil, Telugu and Hindi" respectively, I think it is better to arrange them alphabetically.
2. Is there any proper consensus to add the ethnic film industry, both Indian and other World language here in Wikipedia apart from the Bahubali one you are telling?

• Blackcashew, There are more actors from Bollywood than from Telugu film industry in Saaho.
• Precisepie, The The Great Wall (film) article lists 'English' before 'Mandarin' in the infobox parameter 'Language'. Seems alphabetical arrangement. We have just done that in Saaho - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:03, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: In a world where editors change the order of languages[1][2][3] to perpetuate ethnic warring, I don't think it's unreasonable to move Telugu to the top. The alternative is that we're going to wind up spending far too much time enforcing the arbitrary alternative. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:56, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: If I remember correctly, there were edits here which moved 'Tamil' to the top as well. That's the other reason because of which I got interested in making it alphabetical. If we come with a consensus that the name of the "ethnic industry" will be at the top then I'm with it. But Saaho lists "T-Series" and "Dharma Productions" as well which are both Hindi-major. If we go by the number of lingustic film industries, then Hindi would move to top. But what is an "ethnic industry"? What if there's a Hindi-Marathi film made in Bollywood and people want Marathi to be at the top since Bollywood is located in Maharashtra? I believe there should be a clear cut rule about that. Sir, isn't there any rule like that for foreign films? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:28, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: I'm unaware of any clear-cut rule about that. And it's a valid counter-argument that the other studios are from the Hindi industry, but let's not forget about UV Creations. That said, I don't have a strong feeling about this. I'm just offering another perspective based on my experience. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:31, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Probably we need a concensus at WP:ICTF sir. Obviously there will be disruptive edits again but then we'll have a standard against which we can judge those kind of edits. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:13, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Hello sir. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:01, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: Hello. I'm not sure what you expect me to do here. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:37, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Can the WP:ICTF help get to a general consensus regarding this type of situations? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:53, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: Potentially, but you'd need to open a discussion there to find out. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:56, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: The production house of Saaho is UV Creations which is a Tollywood studio. T-Series is the distributor of the Hindi version of the film whose Hindi rights they apparently bought from UV Creations for 120 Crore. UV Creations is credited as the production house in all four language trailers while T-Series is not credited in Telugu, Malayalam and Tamil Trailers (excluding music). Furthermore, even in the Hindi trailer, Vamsi-Pramod of UV are listed as Producers while Gulshan Kumar and Bhushan Kumar have the "present" credit. This is to say that UV has creative control over the movie while T-Series is only involved in Hindi version distribution and soundtrack production as a record label. Considering this, it would be appropriate to either put Telugu at the top or mention that the movie is produced by a Tollywood studio. This would be akin to mentioning that Luc Besson's Fifth Element and Valerian are French movies shot in the English language. Let me know your thoughts. --Reo kwon (talk) 19:35, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

That's POV. The ordering is as per the original trailer released. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:09, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Please see this source where Prabhas and Shraddha kapoor themselves talk about the 2 languages Telugu and Hindi, the movie was made in and it is clear that most of the sources provided are not right. Ripapart (talk) 22:38, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Here, the lead actor clearly says It was shot in three languages. Panda619 (talk) 05:06, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

There cannot be be consensus when she herself along with the male lead are saying it was shot in 2 languages Telugu and Hindi in this source. Ripapart (talk) 05:13, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Until we establish a consensus what should be on the article I will revert it back to the previous state. In this interview they have described how each shot each scene pains takingly 2 times and not 3 times, they mention so clearly. Ripapart (talk) 05:17, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

In that Film Companion interview, the lead actors don't say anything, The interviewer is the one who asks "you shot in Telugu and Hindi". Panda619 (talk) 05:21, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

and they are just talking about those two languages dubbing process because they have dubbed themselves in both languages, while for Tamil they may have another person voicing them but still shot in 3 languages Panda619 (talk) 05:24, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

The interview you presented looks like an error, definitely the other interview gives so much in details how it was shot twice, instead of simply saying something, please see complete interview. Ripapart (talk) 05:28, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

What error ? Panda619 (talk) 05:33, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Error of giving contradictory information, given to tamil interview channel. Ripapart (talk) 05:38, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

So if its a Tamil interview means its error ? and here another interview of Prabhas saying "We did in Tamil too, Its three languages", This interview and This shraddha kapoor interview "It was shot in three languages" establishes the fact that it is a trilingual film. Panda619 (talk) 05:40, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

As per your above source for providing this source, the same anchor is saying it was shot in 2 languages and Prabhas is saying few scenes were shot in Tamil language, which means the movie is not shot in three languages. Ripapart (talk) 05:46, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

again what anchor says is irrelevant and not fews scenes, Prabhas says "we did in tamil too, Lot of shots" Panda619 (talk) 05:50, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Sure okay, lots of shots made in Tamil, but not the movie itself. Ripapart (talk) 05:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

That's how baahubali was also made, They shot in two languages the close up scenes, the far away scenes and songs were just telugu, but still it will be considered as bilingual. Panda619 (talk) 05:54, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Thats a very vague claim, without providing any sources.Ripapart (talk) 05:59, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

In this source, a lead actor clearly says the film was shot in three languages. Taking the older sources in the lead, I believe Tamil can be added. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:40, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Sources show film was not shot in entirety in Tamil. See this source. We will need to establish the meaning of "simultaneously shot in multiple languages" whether few shots is good enough to be included as "simultaneously shot" in that language, or movie itself in entirety needs to be shot enitrely to say use the "simultaneously shot in" phrase, we might end up modifying multiple film pages not just this in case of adding we redefine what languages are to be included. Ripapart (talk) 15:16, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

If the producers market and distribute it as a Tamil film, we have to reflect that. Normally we wouldn't do that for financial information, but with films in India, the line between dubs and bilinguals is fuzzy, at best. Almost all the so-called bilinguals in India have only some scenes reshot and the rest dubbed. DeluxeVegan (talk) 15:23, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Prabhas himself says, it is almost three language, talking about Tamil. Now that becomes confusing. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:24, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

It doesn't matter how many shots, as DeluxeVegan (talk) said, If the producers market and distribute it as a Tamil film, we have to reflect that. Panda619 (talk) 16:46, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

That's why I'm inclined towards adding Tamil as well. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:54, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

And here another recent source, an article from Times of India, Titled Saaho is my first trilingual film: Arun Vijay, where Arun Vijay says "This is the first time, I am a part of a trilingual film and it was really enjoyable and challenging as well", Now three stars from the film clearly claim it to be a trilingual, I don't know what else we need, To establish that fact. Panda619 (talk) 17:00, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

and that article also says "which will also be releasing in Tamil along with the Telugu and Hindi versions" Panda619 (talk) 17:04, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Wow, so many responses. If you watch the interview of Shradda and Prabhas, they clearly said that the film was shot trilingual and is going to be released in four languages. I don't see the point taking only one interview as sacrosanct, while ignoring the other interviews. I would also go with the consensus having Tamil also be a part of the list. Luigi Boy ルアイヂ ボイ ^talk 18:45, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

This is a release by the producers. Stating that the film is trilingual.

If we should include tamil as another language we might need some extra information mentioning partially some shots were shot in Tamil aswell instead of saying the movie itself was simultaneously shot in tamil which is incorrect. Ripapart (talk) 23:35, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Also we could add Tamil with this information (saying lot of shots were shot in tamil) in the main lines and avoid adding into the info box, as movie itself was not simultaneously shot - these details cannot be represented in info box and it will be incorrect to add it there.Ripapart (talk) 23:39, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Doesn't matter, above 3 sources of star's interview and producer's official website says "trilingual movie", "Sahoo is being shot simultaneously in Hindi, Tamil, and Telugu" and producers market and distribute it as that, we have to reflect that, no matter what you think of how it was shot. Panda619 (talk) 00:00, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

When did the actors mention that they've only shot partially in Tamil. And what's the difference between simultaneously shot and not confirmed partial shooting during the production? I don't understand why you're insisting on mentioning something which is not even confirmed and if the producers have utterly iterated that the film is trilingual then we don't need to judge whether it's correct or not. Luigi Boy ルアイヂ ボイ ^talk 05:32, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

If some shots of Saaho were shot in Tamil and not the complete movie, we should not include Tamil in the list. Otherwise, we have to make all the Rajnikanth and Kamal Hassan movies as bilingual because most of the movies of these two stars have many shots which are tailor made for Telugu audience that does not appear in Tamil version. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.237.249.219 (talk) 14:42, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

They are not released as bilinguals/trilinguals. This one is. (Also, FYI only some scenes of BB2 were filmed in Tamil, and yet we include the language). DeluxeVegan (talk) 14:44, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

I would like to go by this official source [4] which mentions Tamil as well. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:53, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

It's a difference if only some scenes were reshot in another language or the whole film except some scenes are shot in a language. And there's still no prove that Tamil scenes were only shot partially. If the producers of the film market as trilingual film then it's the fact except there are other proves that prove the former be wrong. Luigi Boy ルアイヂ ボイ ^talk 14:57, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

If only some scenes of BB2 were filmed in Tamil, then Tamil should be stripped off from the language list. It does not matter whether a film is released as bilinguals/trilinguals, we have to make all the Rajnikanth and Kamal Hassan movies as bilingual/trilingual because they reshot some scenes for Telugu audience. Otherwise, if only some scenes are shot in a particular language, we should not include that language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.237.196.235 (talk) 17:07, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

This conversation is getting absurd. You are welcome to go ahead and propose those changes at the talk pages of those Rajinikanth and Kamal Hassan pages. Tamil is not going to be removed from the Baahubali articles as there were a couple of RfCs (this is the last one, I suppose) all of which ended in favor of including Tamil. What occurs with those other films is anybody's guess. Regardless, you have no conclusive evidence to claim that this film, Saaho, was not entirely filmed in Tamil. On the other hand, the producers and the leads have reiterated that it is filmed in three languages. DeluxeVegan (talk) 17:24, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

If the producer is claiming that he's releasing in a particular manner, then it is the fact. Unless, there are sources that prove the fact to be wrong. You still haven't provided any kind of source to claim that Tamil scenes were shot partially, except the interview where the interviewer leads the interview. The argument with Rajini's and Kamal Hassan's films were also partially shot don't even apply to this situation. These films weren't showcased as bilingual resp. trilingual. There are 2:1 interviews claiming that they shot in Tamil also. I don't see the problem adding Tamil to the list. Except, it hurts those language fanatics faction. We can't censor the article in order to please the crowd. Luigi Boy ルアイヂ ボイ ^talk 19:31, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Another recent interview of Shraddha Kapoor, where she confirms again, that it was shot in three languages. Panda619 (talk) 20:07, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Guys its apparently clear based on the sources(if you missed them check above in this conversation), that some shots were shot in Tamil, not the film in its entirety. Now we will need to determine whether the film description in the lead paragraph which precisely uses these words "shot simultaenously in Hindi and Telugu" should be changed to "shot simultaenously in Hindi, Tamil and Telugu", and in my opinion it will be incorrect to say so, as it is clear the film in its entirety was not shot in Tamil. And that's why I suggested we include information saying some shots were shot in Tamil, based on the sources, and donot include Tamil in infobox, this seems like a reasonable compromise by both sides as we can include Tamil into the article as well, and it will be accurate.Ripapart (talk) 20:25, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

No, none of the above sources support what you say. Panda619 (talk) 20:40, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Can you please mention the part where the interviewer resp. interviewee is saying that they've only shot some scenes in Tamil. And all of the above mentioned sources claim to be shot trilingually without elaborating the whole process. I don't really see the connection. Luigi Boy ルアイヂ ボイ ^talk 20:44, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

• Comment: Luigi approached me on my talk page to solicit a comment from me here. It's nice to see people discussing things in Indian entertainment articles; kudos to all of you. The population of quality editors interested in Indian subjects is growing, and I think that's a good thing. As for my opinion, if for months the article said X, I think that could remain until it can be determined what the Truth (with a capital T) is. We're certainly not in any hurry and this language obsession is not terribly a great use of everybody's time. Alternatively, consider this: in the |language= parameter of the infobox, write See [[#Production|Production]], with a link to the production section. At the bottom of that section, or wherever is intuitive, add information to the tune of "Initial reports indicated the film would be shot in three languages, A, B and C...however, later comments by X only stated that it was filmed in ___ and ___". This should make it clear that we don't know for sure, without committing us to reporting the Truth (with a capital T). Naturally in the lead sentence we would leave it the way it is, which currently says "Saaho (transl. Valour) is an upcoming 2019 Indian action thriller film". Does that seem reasonable? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 02:26, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Sir, for commenting here. I'm for either of the option which Cyphoidbomb mentioned. My personal opinion is that the producers didn't shoot all the scenes in every language. My hypothesis is that in order to cut the production cost they shot only scenes which didn't lip sync. Obviously, everyone would choose this option if the dialogues fit perfectly with another language dialogues. If we take the Psycho Saiyyan they obviously shot the scenes in one language. Or the Enni soni song seems to be shot in two languages. Tamil resp. Hindi dialogues seemed to be interchangable judging the motion. Luigi Boy ルアイヂ ボイ ^talk 06:52, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Sir, isn't this official page from UV Creations not reliable enough to prove that the film was shot in Hindi, Tamil and Telugu? As for the status quo, "Tamil" was removed recently after this source turned up. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:06, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: It would be enough to convince me, but since there is some dispute, for whatever reason, I'm trying to find a suitable workaround. I haven't checked the integrity of the other sources, (especially if they're not in English) but arguing from a negative, i.e. "Actor A didn't say Tamil, so that means the film was not shot in Tamil" or "Actor B didn't correct the interviewer when they said the film was being shot in two languages" is illogical. You can't prove a fact based on what someone didn't say. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:14, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: I agree with you. It seems most are in favour of putting Tamil back in, but we can surely wait for sometime to get to a consensus, if not then RfC? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:18, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: I completely agree with your opinion about fact proving. Like user Fylindfotberserk said if there's still dispute we should rather consider doing an RfC. Luigi Boy ルアイヂ ボイ ^talk 17:02, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

@cypoidbomb I agree with you to go with an RFC. Its funny how on the source the movie is spelled as Sahoo on more than one occasion and spelled Saaho also multiple times, make note that this is not an encrypted site it uses HTTP, not Https, a company who has money to produce a film worth$350 crores rupess does not spend money to have an encrypted site? Can we trust this unprofessional unencrypted site to be their official page ? Ripapart (talk) 00:56, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

The confirmed Twitter account UV Creations links to their website, so yup, its official. (Arka Media Works too does not have https protection.) Its obvious, to me, atleast, that Sahoo is a typo. I don't see the point of an Rfc when the claim that the film is not entirely filmed in Tamil rests entirely on the shoulders of two erroneously attributed-to interviews; the former, by chance, does not mention something along the lines of "This film was shot in Tamil", and instead features a question from the interviewer which states, "You have done a lot of work for this film in Hindi and Telugu what are your thoughts etc." and the cast members give their response. In the second interview, the lead actor Prabhas states, "We did it in Tamil too, lot of shots". Saying multiple shots were filmed in Tamil=/=not entirely filmed in Tamil. It, one the other hand, substantiates that a majority of the film was reshot in that language. An Rfc for a cooked-up theory would be a waste of time. DeluxeVegan (talk) 02:20, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

" "Tamil" was removed recently after this source ", In this film companion interview, The Interviewer leads about asking Hindi and Telugu, cast members responds to it and later here, the Interviewer asks "Is there a difference in the way you pitch a performance in either language", Prabhas responds saying Tamil and Telugu dialogue modulation are nearby, hindi was different and concludes saying "Hindi was harder than Tamil and Telugu for me". This makes this source Invalid and can't be even used as citation for "Hindi & Telugu only" claim. on the other hand we have like more than 5 sources from cast and producers clearly saying "Shot in three languages", "Trilingual" and more similar sources can be found. Panda619 (talk) 05:31, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

In the interview, Prabhas mentioned about Tamil language in reference to the movie Baahubali but not about Saaho. Listen to the interview again clearly. He clearly talked about only Telugu and Hindi languages for the movie Saaho.

Language

Mention that original language is telugu, since director, producers and lead role prabhas from telugu industry Charan321321 (talk) 06:55, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

The order of language is as per official trailer - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 06:56, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Many people raising a doubt about original language.So, mention original language is telugu. Charan321321 (talk) 07:02, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Shooting was done in all three languages simultaneously. It is trilingual. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:31, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2019

1) In the CAST section, prabhas as "ASHOK CHAKRAVARTHY".

Source: 1) It's visible in the trailer at 0:27 182.18.177.138 (talk) 13:08, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

 Not done Not clearly visible. Better to have an explicit source IMO. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:04, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 August 2019

Change Saaho (transl. Valour) to Saaho (transl. Hail or Cheers) because it is the actual meaning of the word Saaho. Kaishows (talk) 05:18, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

 Question: Kaishows: A quick Google search indicates that it is the Telugu equivalent of Jai ho. Would "Let there be victory" work? DeluxeVegan (talk) 05:22, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

@DeluxeVegan: yes it would also work but 'Let victory be yours' would be more apt because it is like saying to someone.(Kaishows (talk) 06:18, 20 August 2019 (UTC))

 Done DeluxeVegan (talk) 06:35, 20 August 2019 (UTC)