Talk:Kyle Kulinski

Sources from my WP:DRV comment

I was easily able to find mass media coverage which had apparently been overlooked, such as [1] that I have already added to the REFUNDed draft. Here are some more:

• "Kyle Kulinski, a co-founder of Justice Democrats and an influential left-wing podcast host, went further. 'If democratic elites really think they’re gonna casually override the will of the voters they have another thing coming,' he said...." Bowman, Bryan (20 February 2020). "Democratic Primary: What Happens if No One Wins a Majority of Delegates?". The Globe Post.
• "'Bloomberg literally packed the audience for cheers for himself,' said Kyle Kulinski, host of the Kyle Kulinski show...." York, Mario Koran Adam Gabbatt in New; Belam (earlier), Martin (27 February 2020). "Trump campaign sues New York Times for libel over Russia opinion piece – as it happened". The Guardian.
• "'Stunning middle finger to democracy and the democratic base,' said journalist Kyle Kulinski of the other candidates...." Higgins, Eoin (February 20, 2020). "The Most Unnerving Moment From the Nevada Democratic Debate". Truthdig.
• "This year’s Politicon (the annual non-partisan political convention which aims to bring 'Republicans, Democrats, and people of all stripes together...') culminated with a debate between Charlie Kirk, the founder and president of Turning Point USA, and Kyle Kulinski, the co-founder of Justice Democrats and host of The Kyle Kulinski Show." Haworth, Ian (November 4, 2019). "Why The 'All' In 'Medicare for All' Is Not The Be-All And End-All". Townhall.

Do we consider such quotations as an authority to be substantial coverage or merely mentions in passing? In contrast, here is a Rolling Stone article which mentions him in passing but does not quote him as an authority. In any case, these sources lead with his name, so they seem like substantial coverage:

• MacDonald, Tyler (25 January 2020). "Kyle Kulinski Defends Joe Rogan After Backlash For Bernie Sanders Endorsement". The Inquisitr.
• "Justice Democrats co-founder Kyle Kulinski criticized CNN and MSNBC on Thursday for failing to do as much investigative journalism into President Donald Trump as Fox News has been doing into former Vice President Joe Biden...." Nash, Charlie (3 October 2019). "Justice Democrats Co-Founder: Fox 'More Impactful' Than CNN, MSNBC, Which 'Just Whine' Over Tweets". Mediaite.
• MacDonald, Tyler (8 January 2020). "Donald Trump's Speech On Iran Attack Blasted By Kyle Kulinski For Being 'Full Of Lies And Insanity'". The Inquisitr.
• "Progressive activist Kyle Kulinski said Wednesday that 2020 presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) is actually 'at his best' when he shows off his famous grumpy side...." Bonn, Tess (24 July 2019). "Progressive activist: Sanders 'at his best when he's an angry old man'". TheHill.
• Pfeiffer, Eric (11 July 2017). "Kyle Kulinski Of The Young Turks Says Democrats Need To Change Before They Can Defeat Trump". GOOD.

73.222.115.101 (talk) 08:38, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

WP:ENTERTAINER

"[Regarding] WP:ENTERTAINER, 'Has a large fan base or a significant "cult" following.' He has 667,618,862 YouTube views. His appearance on Joe Rogan (Oct 2019) has 2.2 million views. The subject meets our general notability requirements and meets WP:ENTERTAINER. We do not dismiss such notable subjects...." Lightburst (talk) 15:10, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

• I endorse that view. EllenCT (talk) 02:28, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Seconded Viktorpp (talk) 11:44, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because the subject is notable. --EllenCT (talk) 07:36, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Additional source found at deletion review

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/3-of-the-silliest-tweets-opposing-the-killing-of-qassim-soleimani EllenCT (talk) 18:29, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

What content would this source support? It says nothing about Kulinski other than he once tweeted something. - Ryk72 ^talk 20:52, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Do you consider it a passing mention or a quotation as of an authority? EllenCT (talk) 22:58, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

In so far as this is not a false dichotomy: given the way in which the tweet is described in this opinion piece ("idiotic", "winning the just-plain-ignorant stakes"); it is very difficult to see it as a quotation as of an authority. Again, what content would this source support? I genuinely can't see that there's much meat in the source - Kulinski tweeted something; Rogan (in the WE) thought it was ignorant - what more is there? And I don't mean to single out this source. I genuinely can't see that there's much in most of the sources listed in the sections above. - Ryk72 ^talk 23:49, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Notability Threshold Questions

Out of curiosity, if the article included references to articles from publications of this nature (hypothetically), where the subject is the primary or secondary focus, would the subject then be considered notable? Vox, Bloomberg, Forbes, NYT, Washington Post, Wired, Fox, MSNBC, Mother Jones, various books. (Would any of these sources be considered irrelevant or biased?) Presently, is the subject close to being notable, or very far from being notable?

Here are some articles where he is mentioned: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3k3jj5/youtubes-bungled-crackdown-on-steven-crowder-only-made-him-stronger https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/who-are-justice-democrats-758447/ https://jacobinmag.com/2020/3/kyle-kulinski-bernie-bros-secular-talk-joe-rogan-youtube https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1000663/Fox-News-Kyle-Kulinski-Chris-Stigall-USA-US-Democratic-party-TV-clash https://fair.org/home/tips-for-a-post-mueller-media-from-nine-russiagate-skeptics/ https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/452701-cbc-members-accuse-aoc-linked-justice-democrats-of-targeting-black https://quillette.com/2019/05/24/how-the-idw-can-avoid-the-tribalist-pull/ https://lawandcrime.com/legal-analysis/cenk-uygur-has-a-good-legal-case-for-suing-the-new-york-times-over-david-duke-lie/ https://foxwilmington.com/headlines/sanders-campaign-rails-against-nervous-establishment-as-candidates-flock-to-biden/ https://www.dailywire.com/news/exclusive-daily-wire-interviews-political-youtuber-frank-camp https://books.google.com/books?id=D_CYDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA190&lpg=PA190&dq=kyle+kulinski+interview&source=bl&ots=sm8Tagg7vh&sig=ACfU3U2DzR-v6WWPjNk8ZCPbGzlfyReonA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-z-TQlf_nAhV7lnIEHQ2zDHI4UBDoATABegQICxAB#v=onepage&q=kyle%20kulinski%20interview&f=false http://www.thebatt.com/opinion/does-corporate-media-tell-the-whole-story/article_b6a9bb30-104e-11ea-88f7-6fcd2e7932cf.html https://books.google.com/books?id=_z2LDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT158&lpg=PT158&dq=kyle+kulinski+the+intercept&source=bl&ots=QNy_ZmkgZi&sig=ACfU3U0slbSk6w2-g2U7xu6KHrUnMhYSYA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj4_t7Blv_nAhWmmHIEHQTZAZQ4ChDoATAFegQIChAB https://www.thebellhouseny.com/e/rising-s-krystal-ball-and-saagar-enjeti-live-88550184987/ https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jan/21/how-nfl-running-back-justin-jackson-became-an-unexpected-star-of-the-left https://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/10/25/forget-what-corker-and-flake-say-look-their-destructive-90-pro-trump-voting-records https://freebeacon.com/politics/justice-democrats-pac-paid-200k-to-cofounders-consulting-firm/ https://www.truthdig.com/articles/elizabeth-warren-refuses-to-elaborate-after-accusing-sanders-of-sexism/ https://theglobepost.com/2020/02/14/benjamin-dixon-bloomberg/ Falseinfinity (talk) 20:35, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Submitted for publication

There has been a lot of good faith discussion about the notability and sourcing of this article. After the March 6, 2020 edits, the article meets both criteria, with profile piece in Jacobin magazine, reference as a prominent liberal by CNN and as an internet idol by The Washington Post. Sourcing now includes CNN, The Guardian, The Washington Post, Fox News, IMDB, Rolling Stone, Yahoo!, The Nation, Jacobin and Vice, as well as multiple published books from notable publishers - all of which are considered reliable sources. Further, the coverage is over a long period of time and broad in context. Viktorpp (talk) 11:07, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

The primary problem I’m seeing is that nearly all of them are passing mentions. Some are just name drops due to his association with other people, and don’t treat the subject at all. While notability is established by sustained in-depth coverage, I’ll note that it’s an inherent quality, and not solely attached to sourcing. However, I’m still not sure he quite meets the threshold for notability on Wikipedia, at this particular time. Unfortunately, this whole process has been tainted by the subject calling on his followers to disrupt Wikipedia. Even without that though, I’m not sure the community would be able to extend latitude, as there really are almost solely mentions of his name in connection to the Justice Democrats, and little else. I think this is a matter of “too soon”; I don’t doubt he’ll be notable in the future, but given the more specific guidelines on public figures, it’s difficult to make the argument he meets the criteria, as of yet. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 11:25, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the comment. I appreciate the perspective. There are a couple of points I'd like to posit: 1. Jacobin magazine just did a profile covering exclusively Kulinski and that's included in the references. This is an independent (unrelated to Kulinski) and reliable (print magazine with large circulation and meeting WP:N) source. Similarly, IMDB has pages for both Kulinski and his show. 2. While a single passing mention clearly doesn't meet the WP:N guideline, I don't concur that all the sourcing from CNN, The Guardian, Fox News, Rolling Stone, Yahoo!, Vice etc are passing mentions. The passing mentions are in relation to founding Justice Democrats. But in the sources referred to above, he is quoted as an authority figure. It's clear that he is considered an authority figure by these publications, because they refer to him as "prominent liberal" and "internet idol". In view of these, I hope you would reconsider. Viktorpp (talk) 11:37, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Sample mentions (seems a bit more than passing mention) from publications (I have substituted "Quote" for the words of Kulinski they were quoting):

"Quote" tweeted Kyle Kulinski, a prominent liberal and YouTube host. - CNN

Commentators and analysts have since asked whether candidates shelled out thousands of dollars to crowd the expensive seats with their own supporters. “Quote,” said Kyle Kulinski, host of the Kyle Kulinski show, “Quote” - The Guardian

To some creators accustomed to the company’s previously hands-off approach, however, such new standards could prove costly. Kyle Kulinski, a progressive commentator with nearly 678,000 subscribers to his channel Secular Talk, said in a video Thursday that YouTube’s decision to demonetize Crowder’s channel could set a precedent for other channels not deemed brand-safe. “Quote” said Kulinski, a frequent Trump critic who railed on Crowder for several minutes. “Quote” Kulinski and others referenced previous “Adpocalypses,” such as in 2017, when major corporations momentarily pulled ads from YouTube after they appeared next to racist content. YouTube responded by tweaking its ad placements to ensure that companies like Coca-Cola or General Motors were in more family friendly territory. - Vice

Secular Talk host Kyle Kulinski similarly tweeted, "Quote" - Fox

And Kyle Kulinski, a popular lefty YouTuber and co-founder of Justice Democrats, called on DNC Chair Tom Perez to resign. “Quote,” Kulinski said on Twitter. “Quote.” - Vice

Kyle Kulinski, a host of a show on the liberal The Young Turks network who supports Sanders, attacked both Biden and "the establishment" as he made a plea to Democratic voters to gather behind Sanders rather than Biden. "Quote," Kulinski tweeted. - Fox

Joe Rogan has experience with interviewing both progressive and conservative thinkers. Figures such as Andrew Yang (D), Tulsi Gabbard (D), Kyle Kulinski (D), Gary Johnson (L), Benjamin Shapiro (R), and Candace Owens (R), have all appeared on The Joe Rogan Experience program. - Yahoo!

And of course, Express and Real Clear Politics have run pieces in which Kulinski is the main subject.

I would further remind everyone that the WP:ENT includes "Has a large fan base or a significant "cult" following." so the YouTube subscriptions (800k) or Twitter following (300k) should also not be dismissed as invalid when discussing notability. Viktorpp (talk) 11:42, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

WP:ENT includes "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions." As mentioned in Draft_talk:Kyle_Kulinski#WP:ENTERTAINER Kulinski has his own show, which is listed on IMDB, but also played a major role (primary guest) on episode of notale Joe Rogan Experience. Further, he has appeared multiple times as primary guest on notable Rising (news show) multiple times.Viktorpp (talk) 11:53, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

WP:ENT includes "Has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment." Prolific: Secular Talk has had 1500+ episodes Viktorpp (talk) 11:53, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Evaluating notability

I started an examination of the references for notability, got about halfway through but have to stop for now so pasting the table here in case anyone else wants to finish it off. Schazjmd (talk) 15:58, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Source	Significant?	Independent?	Reliable?	Secondary?	Pass/Fail	Notes
YouTube channel	N	N	N	N	N	Self-published source
Politicon speaker profile	N	N	N	N	N	Self-published source
CNN article	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Quoted tweet from K.
book, "Why You Should Be a Socialist"	N	Y	Y	Y	N	K.'s name included in long list of names
Guardian article	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Brief quote from K.
Jacobin magazine profile	Y	N	Y	Y	N	I'm not familiar with Jacobin, giving benefit of the doubt on reliability. I have judged this non-independent, close, but no.[2] --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:49, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
Vice article	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Brief mention in article about someone else
book, "Alternative Media Meets Mainstream Politics: Activist Nation Rising"	N	Y	Y	Y	N	No mention of K., only Justice Democrats
About the Justice Democrats	N	N	?	N	N	No mention of K.
Rolling Stone article	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Brief mention
Real Clear Politics article	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Brief mention
Fox article	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Tweet quote
IMDb	Y	N	N	N	N	Unreliable source
book, "Digital Civil War"	?	Y	Y	Y	N	Book not searchable online, but as it only is cited in article to support "is a host", I doubt significant coverage
book, "Alternative Media Meets Mainstream Politics: Activist Nation Rising"	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Brief mention
Vice article	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Brief mention
book, "The Liberal Media Industrial Complex"	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Brief mention
Fox article	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Quote from K.
https://santaclaritafree.com/gazette/opinion/the-passion-of-kyle-kulinski	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Pet this analysis --SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:45, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
placeholder	Y	Y	Y	Y	N	placeholder
placeholder	Y	Y	Y	Y	N	placeholder
placeholder	Y	Y	Y	Y	N	placeholder
placeholder	Y	Y	Y	Y	N	placeholder
placeholder	Y	Y	Y	Y	N	placeholder
Total qualifying sources					0	There must be multiple qualifying sources to meet the notability requirements

• For transparency, here is our article on Jacobin (magazine). Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 20:59, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

I removed quite a few primary references and almost all of the YouTube/self-published references. OhKayeSierra (talk) 08:44, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

• User:Schazjmd, do you mind if we use this table as a running summary of sources as they are suggested and evaluated? Or should we copy the table? --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:51, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

SmokeyJoe, feel free to do with it whatever you want. Schazjmd (talk) 12:14, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Draft protected from editing

User:Scottywong has protected the draft for three months. See Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Kyle Kulinski. Sensible, I think.

The above section Draft talk:Kyle Kulinski#Evaluating notability looks good for screening possible GNG-meeting, notability-attesting sources. Until there are at least two, I do not think it is sensible to write content, as the content will be founded on an unsuitable foundation. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:45, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

@SmokeyJoe: can you help me understand the definition of "independent" you used at [3]?

“ .... “In my private life I’m not all that outgoing. I’m kind of a reserved person, and I keep to myself,” he says." is information straight from the subject, this is not independent coverage. ”

Are you saying a biographical profile which quotes from the subject is not independent? Perhaps you can refer to a specific definition you're applying. I note that WP:GNG says the criterion is, "'Independent of the subject' excludes works produced by the article's subject or someone affiliated with it." Are you suggesting that Kulinski is affiliated with Jacobin? EllenCT (talk) 17:18, 11 March 2020 (UTC)