Talk:Brightest Blue

Album release dates

Ok, many outlets are reporting her album is titled Brightest Blue and will be released on June 12, however others say it's title is unconfirmed and is out on June 5. Let's discuss. Musiceditor515 (talk) 20:24, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

In the source provided on the page, which was issued to Press Party from Universal Music, the album is releasing on 5 June 2020; no other information has been issued in an official capacity. Title and other release dates are speculative, and Wikipedia does not speculate. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:00, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Lead single

Worry about me is only available on the deluxe version. So is Power the lead single or maybe flux, because its also on the album? MotherofSnakes (talk) 09:55, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

"Worry About Me" was promoted as a single from the album, therefor, by its inclusion, it is the album's first single. All songs released prior were not promoted as album-related releases, therefor, they are not included in the infobox. livelikemusic (TALK!) 13:46, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Inclusion of pre-released singles

Per {{Infobox album}}, "Close to Me," "Flux" and "Hate Me" should not be included, as they were never released in promotion of the album; they were each released as stand-alone releases. Their inclusion on Brightest Blue is merely all they have in-common. Their releases were standalone, and not made in promotion of the album. livelikemusic (TALK!) 17:00, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Do you have a source that says "Flux" was not released in anticipation of the album? It was released as a formal single and is included on the album. "Worry About Me" was also released prior to the announcement of the album, so by that logic only "Power" should be included as the lead single.. Falconerjmoosey (talk) 18:03, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Again, simply being included on the album does not equate to it being released as a single from the album. Other stuff exists. See Romance (Camila Cabello album) for example: "Señorita" (Shawn Mendes and Camila Cabello song) was released as a single from Mendes' self-titled third album and not promoted from Cabello's album, despite its inclusion on the album later. As for "Worry About Me," it is included on a format of the album and was promoted as the first single from the album, therefore, its inclusion is appropriate. Even within {{Infobox single}} it states: If the song was originally released as a single well in advance of the album, This is the past for the three linked songs above. Simply being included on the album does not immediately mean they were singles from the album; they were standalone releases later put into the album. Marketing and promotion began with the release of "Worry About Me," per its press release. livelikemusic (TALK!) 18:17, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the detailed response. Pointing to the press release (which I found without you linking) is what I was seeking. Yes, OSE. However, the press release does not list "Worry About Me" as the lead single. In fact, it terms it a "new single" and explicitly states that it follows the previously released, aforementioned singles. This groups those previously released singles with the announcement of the album (which was then slated for June 5.) Further, the announcement for "Power", if we are looking at the album announcement as a determining factor of singles promoting the album, explicitly includes a new album announcement in the title. This press release also refers to "Worry About Me" as a "recent single" rather than the lead single, and emphasizes its inclusion alongside previously released singles "Close to Me" and "Hate Me". If we are using cited sources to inform what songs are included, we can't cherry pick based on what we believe is the artist's intent. We need to look at official announcements and reported, verifiable news. If you can point to such a source listing "Worry About Me" as the lead single, even though it is not included in the core album, that would nonetheless justify its inclusion over other officially released singles. Otherwise, looking at the sources, two singles would be considered the lead single: either "Close to Me" (the first released single that is included on the album) or "Power" (the first single released with reference in the press release title to the forthcoming album). Falconerjmoosey (talk) 18:51, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Entertainment Weekly called "Worry About Me" the first single from the album in its article from March 2020. As for the June 2020 release, it was made just prior to the COVID-19 pandemic shut down, so plans seem to have changed, much like other releases have changed in response to the pandemic, both in terms of music releases and concert tours. And, if you want to use your own argument, the press release for "Worry About Me" also announced that album title and details to be revealed soon, and the album's title and change of date were not announced until the release of "Power," which does not negate the intended use of "Worry About Me" as the first single in promotion of the album. livelikemusic (TALK!) 19:13, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Entertainment Weekly may have reported on the release, however it is not an official press release. The article was written over two months ago, prior to the release of the tracklisting, so terming "Worry About Me" the lead single is speculation. I noted that "Worry About Me" mentions the forthcoming album, however you are failing to acknowledge that I specified that "Power" mentioned the forthcoming album in its own press release title, whereas in "Worry About Me" it is included in the subtitle. However, neither press release terms either single as the lead single. On the contrary, both press releases mention the previously released singles, which groups of all the singles as belonging to the album. This article from Billboard refers to "Close to Me" as the lead single, as do numerous other outlets. The complication merely arises from the fact that Ellie has grouped the songs in the "Brightest Blue" (album proper) and in the "EG.0" portion from the Deluxe Edition. In either scenario, either "Close to Me" or "Flux" would be considered the first official singles from the album. The fact of the matter is that if a single is released as an official single, and is later included on the track listing, it is an official single that supports the album. You could argue that a single immediately preceding an album's release is the intended "lead single", but it does not change the fact that previously released songs that are included on the track listing are official singles. If we are getting into OSE, see Dua Lipa's debut as an example of singles that were official releases in support of the album despite their release years before the album was announced or formalized. Changes to the article that cite songs from the album as being official single releases should be considered in good faith unless sufficient evidence is presented to the contrary. And in this case, Entertainment Weekly's speculation is not sufficient when it is in direct contradiction to official press releases. Falconerjmoosey (talk) 20:37, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

So now Entertainment Weekly isn't reliable? In Wikipedia's eyes, it is reliable, and that is enough. Again, simply because information was not known, per the citation, does not mean it not to be true. If that were the case, we would be going through multiple articles disputing information, and that's just chaotic bullshit. That source from Billboard does not explicitly state it is the lead single (note, I am not saying "first," either). It merely asks if it is or not. I am in firm belief of the positions I've made as to why the three songs above are not singles from the album, per the template and other linked pages/guidelines, and I will await more editors to involve, instead of a back-and-forth of two editors only. Also, there is no "deluxe" album; both Brightest Blue and EG.0 are grouped as the same release only. There is no standard or deluxe release. livelikemusic (TALK!) 20:49, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

1.) There is no reason for inappropriate language. 2.) I did not say "Entertainment Weekly" was not reputable. Please do not put words into my mouth. I merely pointed out that the article contradicts official press releases. 3.) Now that the album is available for pre-add on streaming services, I do see EG.0 included as a distinct portion of the album but part of the album nonetheless. I concede that point. 4.) However, you once again are failing to recognize that official singles, whether they lead the album or not, are official singles. Standard album pages on Wikipedia, including this one, include the portion clearly labeled "Singles from ______".

Here is a Venn Diagram to visualize the information we are debating. None of the singles released fit all three criteria. So let's stop debating which single is the "lead" single. All five songs were official single releases, and all five songs are included on the album. It is cut and dry. As I mentioned before, "lead" singles do not have to be the first single. So, whether or not you are in "firm belief", it cannot be argued that these songs should be included as singles from the album. I, too, welcome other editors to become involved. Falconerjmoosey (talk) 21:33, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Diagram is not relevant to what Wikipedia states, so I will not be paying attention, and I do not agree. You are ignoring things that have been posted, and, again, will be waiting for more people to discuss here. Will not continuing to speak in the same circles through this discussion, as it is clear you see your point and I see mine, and they are not going to cross. Again, inclusion on album ≠ automatically mean it is a single from the album. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:39, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

What did I ignore? Please point it out to me and I will address it. You pointed out that I was incorrect about the album having different versions, I conceded. Please tell me how that is not addressing your points.

Saying that a single from an album is not "a single from an album" is mind-boggling mental gymnastics and exactly why we are not going to agree. I don't have time to overhaul the page, nor the interest or energy in undoing your anticipated edits, so I am leaving it at this for now. We will just have to wait and see what others ultimately feel in the long run. Falconerjmoosey (talk) 21:49, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

I would just like to add that LiveLikeMusic is also edit-warring on the pages “Close to Me”, “Hate Me” and “Flux (Ellie Goulding song)|Flux]]”. For some reason he keeps removing the album (Brightest Blue) from the infobox, even though on all three pages it says in the opening paragraph that they are included on the album. This is clearly because while he recognizes that they’re included on the album, he is still insistent that they are not official singles from the album. I’m not sure how to tell if they’re official singles or not, but what I do know is that on Ellie’s discography page, all five songs (the ones I mentioned plus “Worry About Me” and “Power”) are listed as singles from the album.

It seems that in Livelikemusic’s eyes, if an artist doesn’t mention an album while promoting a single, then it isn’t an official single for the album. But Falconer’s point still stands; the page for Dua’s debut includes all the pre-release singles, going back to nearly two years before the album was released (the same time between this and “Close to Me”, coincidentally). Clearly Dua wasn’t mentioning the album in 2015. I remember, she announced it in late 2016. All this to say that I agree with Falconer, we shouldn’t be cherry-picking what pre-release singles count as “official singles” or not. Unless Ellie herself says they were just promotional singles, they should be included on the album page as official singles.

Also LLM, I must say that I find it humorous that you came to my talk page to ask me to stop, but just the other day when I came to your talk page to ask how we could come to an agreement regarding Dedicated Side B, you promptly removed what I said from your page. You clearly have no intention of cooperating with others to come to an agreement. You instead choose to stubbornly stick to what you believe, even if the whole world disagreed with you. Maybe be more open to simply discussing things with people? I can almost guarantee it would be a better way to resolve things then what you currently do. 2601:48:8100:9740:F469:9EC6:7F1A:5D80 (talk) 21:53, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Omg LLM, you really just accused Falconer of ignoring things while you ignored his diagram. I can’t with the hypocrisy, it’s so strong with you. 2601:48:8100:9740:F469:9EC6:7F1A:5D80 (talk) 21:55, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

References