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*Good stuff. thanks, we'll get stuck in. --[[User:Dweller|Dweller]] ([[User talk:Dweller|talk]]) <small>Become [[Wikipedia:Old Fashioned Wikipedian Values|old fashioned!]]</small> 09:27, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
*Good stuff. thanks, we'll get stuck in. --[[User:Dweller|Dweller]] ([[User talk:Dweller|talk]]) <small>Become [[Wikipedia:Old Fashioned Wikipedian Values|old fashioned!]]</small> 09:27, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

====Comments by Oldelpaso====
Hello guys, its been a while. Lets see if I can remember how this place works.
*Would expect to see his international career addressed in the lead.
*Losing his teeth - presumably occurred playing football?
*Roberts went up and down divisions a few times in his career, and its not always clear what level he was playing at. For example his Watford debut was in the top flight, moving to Huddersfield was a step down to play more.
*The section about Wales is a bit disjointed, perhaps because his international career itself was. It'd be good to have some passages that put it into context. Was there a run of form that prompted call-ups? Injuries to regulars?
*Playing style is always bound by what's in the sources for a journeyman. That said, there's a reference to him being part of a "big man, litte man" partnership, but the only place his height is mentioned is the infobox. [[User:Oldelpaso|Oldelpaso]] ([[User talk:Oldelpaso|talk]]) 12:51, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Revision as of 12:52, 20 July 2020

Iwan Roberts

Iwan Roberts (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Nominator(s): Dweller (talk), The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Something of a journeyman Welsh footballer, and certainly held in high esteem, nay legend status, by Norwich City supporters, the push on this article has been a joint effort between the two nominators, one of whom is not a Norwich supporter so was able to introduce some balance. It's been a long time in the making, we first started expansion around nine years ago, but we're hoping to finish the job properly and push it over the FAC line. Both Dweller and I will do our utmost to address every comment and query raised here, and we both thank you in advance for your time and effort. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Kosack

This is what stood out to me on a run through, nothing much for me to really complain about. Kosack (talk) 08:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much, Kosack. We'll get stuck into that. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:34, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, cheers Kosack. I've done the easy ones and left a few scraps for Dweller so he feels like he's still involved..... The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by HornetMike

  • It's definitely lore among Watford fans that Roberts lost his teeth at Vicarage Road. Sadly I can't find a cite! It's not even mentioned in this interview which you thought might have addressed it (might have a bit of useful Watford stuff - Colin Lee? Although is that also mentioned in his book?).
  • In the Watford section there's a full-stop that goes straight into what looks like the second half of a sentence ("before moving...").
    Fixed. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:53, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not sure whether Midlands should be capped in "midlands derby" - the article about it on here caps it up.
    I'll fix that, thanks. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:05, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there a way you could combine the things Wolves fans spat at so you don't get repetition of the phrase within a sentence? Also maybe worth mentioning who Jack Hayward was?
  • I'm not sure what's going on with the paragraph that begins "He played eight games in Division One before finally breaking his league duck ..." - the first few sentences don't make much sense to me.
    Yeah, it's a direct quote but I would be tempted to re-write it into prose because it's mainly a statement of statistical facts, and perhaps only quote the "good heart" bit, what do you think Dweller? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:55, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would lose the quote about "the flourishing talent" of Craig Bellamy as it's unclear where it comes from. You could say he was 19-years-old (he's a July birthday, so was for all that season) to denote he was youthful.
  • I'd say "first four years" rather than "four years so far".
    Adjusted per your recommendation. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:56, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "but misses by Phil Mulryne and Daryl Sutch proved costly" - given it was a penalty shoot-out they were immediately costly, I think "proved costly" better suits a scenario where a miss might be of no consequence (and possibly occurred some time prior to the conclusion), whereas in a shoot-out a miss almost always hurts you.
    Mild re-wording done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:58, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Did Roberts formally give up the captaincy after 2002-03 or did he just gradually lose it by virtue of not playing much? If the former might be worth mentioning?
  • In 2003-04 it says Roberts was no longer an automatic selection for the first-team, but then I noticed he only missed five league matches. Did he make most of his appearances from the bench? If so, would it be worth articulating that?
  • Do we know how long he served as Gillingham caretaker manager/what the results were like?
  • Is it worth mentioning the following: Graham Taylor's departure in 1987 (given he's mentioned as a reason for joining Watford), his breakthrough season in 1988-89 when Watford reached the second tier play-offs (so I suppose you'd have to mention in passing our relegation the previous year too!), that he dropped a division to join Huddersfield, that he moved up a tier when joining Leicester, that in moving to Wolves he missed out on a return to the Premier League, that he reached the play-offs with Wolves, maybe that he remained in the same tier in moving to Norwich/Gillingham/dropped two tiers when joining Cambridge (but I wouldn't want the prose to become too clunky).
  • Similarly, any point in putting footnotes in the season stats to clarify that the Second Division became the First Division which became the Championship/the Third Division became the Second.
  • The prose switches between saying Premier League and Premiership, while the stats table uses the former. I think whenever he played in it, it was called the Premiership?
  • I'm not sure what I think about the book section. Had it been published post-retirement I'd say it should be sub-section of his post-playing career, but it wasn't so I can see why you've felt the need to have it as a headline section. I don't really think it justifies a mention in the lead, but then I can see why you might feel it does given it has its own section. I suppose an alternative might be calling the post-playing section "media and post-playing career"? If you do keep a main book section, I think it would better titled as simply "autobiography", the praise is fairly standard review stuff and it may be semantics but I always think you need to hit a higher bar to cause "a controversy" (as opposed to something containing controversial comments) - hope that (and the rest of it) makes sense! HornetMike (talk) 08:54, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, I dithered a bit about the placement of the section. It did attract headlines because of the ban and its perceived unfairness, both on Gillingham and in contrast to the treatment of more feted footballers. Agree about retitling the section, but it's not actually an "autobiography": although it includes significant autobiographical detail, it does so in the framework of a season diary, which is why we've found awkward gaps [pun intended]. I think I'll have to change it to the book's title. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:31, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Oldelpaso

Hello guys, its been a while. Lets see if I can remember how this place works.

  • Would expect to see his international career addressed in the lead.
  • Losing his teeth - presumably occurred playing football?
  • Roberts went up and down divisions a few times in his career, and its not always clear what level he was playing at. For example his Watford debut was in the top flight, moving to Huddersfield was a step down to play more.
  • The section about Wales is a bit disjointed, perhaps because his international career itself was. It'd be good to have some passages that put it into context. Was there a run of form that prompted call-ups? Injuries to regulars?
  • Playing style is always bound by what's in the sources for a journeyman. That said, there's a reference to him being part of a "big man, litte man" partnership, but the only place his height is mentioned is the infobox. Oldelpaso (talk) 12:51, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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