Talk:Syrian Kurdistan

@El C:

I logged in can you do now self RV i cant eddit — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peacetowikied (talk • contribs)

This is strange. No. El_C 14:40, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

POV-pushing

Amr has a history of problematic anti-Kurdish editing stretching back years, with a notable burst of it at the time of the last Turkish incursion into Syria late last year. Here they have introduced POV that they failed to do at Kurds in Syria, using selected sources to present the Syrian Kurds as interlopers, in accord with Turkish and Syrian state propaganda. There's an interesting story to tell about how, why, and when these parts of Syria came to be settled by Kurdish people, and how the last major migration in the early 20th century still informs citizenship laws and attitudes today, but this Erdoganist/Assadist conspiracy theory is not it. Amr made what they knew would be a controversial edit, and instead of coming to the talk page to make their case after being reverted, immediately launched into an edit war in defiance of BRD (which they have hypocritically cited elsewhere). Will they be sanctioned for this? Konli17 (talk) 14:48, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Konli17, What does an Erdoganist/Assadist conspiracy theory have to do with Kurdish immigration to Syria in the 1920's? Obviously, you fail to argue with the sourced content, some of these sources are from the mid 20th century, long before Assad, and half a century before Erdogan. The content is well sourced, and well known by the way. If you don't like it, that's your problem, but then you can stay away from the topic. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 17:37, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

You have failed to persuade me that your controversial and provocative edit has merit. Konli17 (talk) 19:22, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

You might recall we covered similar ground at Talk:Qamishli#Foundation,_demographic_changes_etc.. It can be difficult to get you to commit to a conversation. Konli17 (talk) 23:34, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

They're certainly heading toward a sanction. I left them a warning not to edit war and to observe WP:ONUS. Hopefully, it will register. Note that a topic ban from the topic area is at my discretion to impose, per the WP:GS/SCW general sanctions. El_C 14:53, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Hopefully. Konli17 (talk) 19:22, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

The writer of the source is kurdish and the source is from USA. Can you explain why this is POV? It is nor Turkish nor arabic or Assad pov.Peacetowikied (talk) 15:05, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

This is the second brand-new user to show an inordinate interest in my edits, and little else. Konli17 (talk) 15:29, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Sorry i was the ip, look my talk page.Peacetowikied (talk) 15:31, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

But can you explain the POV points of the sources Peacetowikied (talk) 17:16, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

@Konli17: You reverted edits claiming these were POV-pushing. User Peacetowikied and myself are asking for detailed explanations regarding the mass removal of sourced content under your claim. If you are not willing to provide detailed explanations to each and every statement you removed, then I will have to report you for edit-warring and POV-pushing. As per El C's request on my Talk page, I am acting here in good faith to give you another chance at explain your content removal edit. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 00:37, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

This is a new tune for you, Amr. My recollection of our discussion at Talk:Tell_Abyad#Recent_reverts is that trying to get any meaningful engagement from you, let alone "detailed explanations to each and every statement you removed", was like trying to get blood from a stone. I went into great detail, to no avail. What's changed? Konli17 (talk) 00:48, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Konli17, a substantive explanation is due nonetheless. If there are systemic problems, ANI is the venue in which to submit a well-documented report. This article talk page is not for that. El_C 00:58, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

OK. Amr has assembled references which give the impression that the majority of Syrian Kurds are descended from recent migrants, ignoring the many references available at Kurds in Syria that say otherwise. Exaggerating the Kurdish north-south migration of the 1920s (estimated to have added 10% to the Kurdish population of al-Jazira Province) is a familiar trope, used by the Assad regimes to justify land seizure and denial of citizenship, and by the AKP to justify ethnic cleansing. From these references, Amr presented a quite slanted picture, ignoring the mountain of other evidence available. Amr is quite familiar with this evidence, having tried for years to make Kurds in Syria more in line with their beliefs, and failed. Now they try here. Many of these references could be useful, but not when used in the manner Amr attempted. If Amr wanted a demographics section, they could have simply copy-and-pasted Kurds_in_Syria#Demographics, but they chose a different road. Konli17 (talk) 01:19, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Stop your accusations and focus in the content! Which one of my references is an Assad regime story? None of the references is even Arab. And how is Kurds_in_Syria#Demographics different from the text I added here? In the section you are referring to it is mentioned: "Sir John Hope Simpson reports that the Jazira province had 100,000 inhabitants, among which 20,000 were Kurds." This reference is from 1939 (French mandate era), so 30 years before Assad and an era of no Arab (Syrian government) influence what soever. The section you are referring to is almost identical except for more details here given that this area (northeastern Syria) is the focus of this article, and this is where most of the Kurdish inflow happened (rather talking in general about Syria as in the other article). This information is well documented and is relevant, so you denying it does not change facts. Maybe I am opening your eyes to another evidence that you will try to delete from the other article. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 01:44, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

See Kurds_in_Syria#Citizenship and Kurds_in_Syria#Arab_cordon. Konli17 (talk) 02:01, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

If there is a real discussion to take place, I'd like to be part of it. I guess it is better we do this at an ANI as El C has recommended.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 01:55, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I don't see any way around it at this stage. Konli17 (talk) 02:04, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

well you fighting here in a WP:BATTLEPeacetowikied (talk) 02:15, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Peacetowikied, please. You are not helping. El_C 03:41, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

But after few days i go revert this. Konli17 has personal dispute with that arab guy. But the sources are not pov Peacetowikied (talk) 08:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Konli, regarding the citizenship and Arab cordon info, obviously you are cherry picking the information that suits your agenda. However, I am not against adding that as part of a chronological narration of events starting with the information you deleted. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 03:34, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Konli17, that is not substantive enough. You need to address the content in relation to the sources. That is how you are meant to engage this article talk page to resolve the dispute. El_C 03:41, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Amr, you're projecting again with your talk of cherrypicking. You asked how the trope informed regime policy, I showed you. I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean by that, El C. The content Amr added was slewed to undermine Syrian Kurdish claims to their homeland. Amr's 'Historical background' section kicks off with an unreferenced statement that "Historical Kurdistan during Ottoman times referred to parts of northeastern Iraq and southeastern Turkey", followed by a confusing part about post-WWI negotiations, before concluding with an assertion that there are only three parts of Kurdistan, i.e. it only exists outside Syria. The section called 'Kurdification of the area' is also confusing, drawing on references to early 20th-century migration to Jazira to paint a picture of Kurdish interlopers. The major Kurdish areas to the west are ignored. Kurdish migration to Jazira, small as it was, is presented as Kurdification; Christian migration is presented as neutral. I don't really have a problem with the the references used here, rather the cherrypicking of information from them and then the slanted presentation of that information. I have my suspicions about French census-takers' reliability, but that's a relatively minor quibble. My intention is that this article broadly follow the articles about the other three parts of Kurdistan; Amr skewed it well away from the norm. Konli17 (talk) 12:08, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

References

If you feel 8 am cheery picking, them add the missing info, without deleting the entire portion I added. What you are saying about no Lurdustan in Syria is a word for word quote from the Treatyvof Sevres textvtgat Kurdish nationalists request to be enacted, so I don't really think that's biased. Give me one source published before 2011 mentioning the term Syrian Kurdistan. Yes, there are Kurdish inhabited areas in Syria, but with other groups, nothing purely Kurdish. Even the small pocket in Afrin has an Arab population and has seen inflowing Kurdish immigration from Turkey but I chose to leave that out. I can include it if you wish. Your argument just shown how POV-pushing is your editing. My edits are all balanced and from European sources. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 16:55, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Pov pushing made up lede

First sentence in article says: "Syrian Kurdistan (also Western Kurdistan (Kurdish: Rojavayê Kurdistanê‎ or simply Rojava)) is the portion of Kurdistan in Syria," So the first sentence of the article claims that inside Syria a "Kurdistan" exists" and it is presenting this as a fact. Who recognizes this? What state or organization? This is only a kurdish nationalistic pov and noting more. There has NEVER been a "Syrian Kurdistan", its a made up thing. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:21, 29 July 2020 (UTC)