Talk:British Asians

I have to say that I have a number of problems with this article:

Firstly, I have always objected to the use of the word "Asian" in such a narrow sense, just as Americans and Australians, use it to refer to Orientals, but not Indians etc. This complete nonsense involves form filling where you get the option of "Asian" OR "Chinese". This is completely inaccurate and ungeographical.

Secondly, I am not completely convinced about the "unity" of "British Asians" (sic) for a couple of reasons: a) Scottish Asians (I don't know about Wales) identify as Scottish rather than "British" or more so, and b) there are clear dividing lines between Muslim-Hindu(-Sikh), which sometimes turn very nasty. Pakistani and Indians, and their descendants in the UK, often have certain religious and historical disagreements with each other, which are still evident. Since partition, India and Pakistan have had a series of military encounters, and both have nuclear capabilities. This has resonance in the UK.

Thirdly, again "South Asian" is better than just "Asian", but at the same time, technically speaking, Malaysians/Indonesians/Iranians... and some Arabs fall under "South Asian" too.

The problem you have then, is not just with this article, but British English in general - it's a matter of course that the word "Asian" is nearly always used to refer to Britons who originate from the Indian subcontinent, not Asia in general, and this is reflected culturally and institutionally (e.g. census forms, the BBC Asian Network, etc.). As a Briton of Chinese descent, I would probably cause a deal of puzzlement if I started referring to myself as "Asian", even though that would be geographically accurate, the word has altered meaning in the popular mind.

The article rightly could do with expansion on the differences between British Asians, both between different parts of the UK, and between different ethnic groups and religions - there is no such thing as a homogeneous British Asian community; nevertheless the term is in popular use, both as an umbrella term and as an identity, far more so than the more accurate "South Asian". Qwghlm 18:48, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

"The first British Asian to gain wide popularity in the UK was the late Freddie Mercury, who led the rock band Queen." - what about Cliff Richard? Guettarda 04:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

-Cliff Richard was not a full South Asian. He was a British colonial in India with some Indian origins as well as British origins. The term British Asian refers to people who are of full South Asian descent and Freddie Mercury was of full Parsi descent (Parsis are South Asian Zoroastrians of Persian origins, South Asian Persians, like Afghan Persians, Tajik Persians Iranian Persians..) -User: Afghan Historian

As I understand it Cliff Richard has denied having any Indian ancestry and his Grandparents were all born in England into English families, as such he is not only not British Asian but technically does not count as Anglo-Indian either. Certainly the term British Asian or even Scottish Asian, English Asian, Welsh Asian etc.... are rejected by many and the term Desi which is non-geographical is more commonly used for people from ethnic groups from the Indian Sub-continent, presenter Nikki Bedi who had an Indian Parsis father and an English mother actually describes herself as being Indo-Anglian, ultimately though there has never been a situation in history for any group in which everyone accepts a particular term and indeed many people are from multiple groups--Lord of the Isles 12:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

i tihnk famous iranians should be givin a mention. omid djalili is great and tracy emin is half iranian...

British Asian as a term though was used to describe those in the UK who were of ancestry from the Indian Sub-continent, as a term it actually doesn't make much sense but that is the historical usuage of it like it or not, in fact Tracey Emin actually is of Turkish Cypriot ancestry and English ancestry as I understand it, I've never come across any mention of Iranian ancestry.--Lord of the Isles 12:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

As another note regarding South Asian, I think South Asian is a better term and in fact this is the term used by the United Nations to define the area from the North West Frontier (The Khyber Pass marking an edge) across to East Bengal and north to the Chinese Border; Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, The Caucases, Arabia and the Levant to the Suez Canal are classified as South West Asia; Korea, Thailand, Singapore, China etc... are classified as South East Asia; Tadjikistan, Kazakstan, Khrygikistan, Uzbeckistan, Mongolia and southern parts of Asian Russia get classified as Central Asia and the rest of Russian Asia would be what would be Northern Asia notably Siberia of course.--Lord of the Isles 12:21, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Sources?

It would be nice to have sources for sweeping statements such as: British Pakistanis originate largely from one region, Azad Kashmir (roughly two thirds). Another 20%, approximately, have links with the Punjab region. zzuuzz ^(talk) 17:01, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Use of Azad Kashmir is Objectionable

The use of word Azad Kashmir is objectionable for an Indian. Azad in Hindi and Urdu means free, which the Pakistan Administered Kashmir is no more than Indian Kashmir. So the phrase must be deleted.

Nope. The phrase 'Azad Kashmir' is politically correct since the region under the control of Pakistan is legally referred to as 'Azad Kashmir', its not for wikipedia to take a poltical stance on such issues, Azad Kashmir might be Pakistan occupied Kashmir to Indians, and Indian held Kashmir might be Indian occupied Kashmiri to Kashmiris and Pakistanis.

It stays.

"Legally referred" to by whom, the Pakistanis? That hardly makes your case for calling it "Azad Kashmir". No other country other than Pakistan refers to Pakistani-controlled Kashmir in that way.

deletion proposal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#British_.22ethnic.22_categories_again

I disagree strongly with this effort that's being made to wipe out a valid category. If you have opinions on the matter, please make your voice heard. --Peripatetic 07:35, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Freddie Mercury

Why was his Image deleted? He may be a Parsi but his parents were still Indian!

Shouldn't it be Asian British instead of British Asian?

As the adjective is normally the ethnicity/origin and the substantive the nationality. Like: Asian American and African American culture. Sijo Ripa 20:03, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

That's not how the term has been used though, the term desi is probably a far better term but British Asian is one that has come into common usuage, people talk about English Romani or Scottish Romani or Welsh Romani not Romani English, Romani Welsh or Romani Scottish; although the term Black British does get used to refer as an umbrella term to people of African ancestry in Britain - there are slight differences between American English and Oxford English (which is what is described as being Standard English).--Lord of the Isles 02:24, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

There has been a similar question about this at Talk:British Chinese, where I have argued in favour of keeping the current name on the grounds that it is the most common usage, and it's the term the group would use themselves. However British Asian is not as clear-cut. The term Desi would be inappropriate as not only is it not commonly used, but it can be offensive (and incorrect) if used by non-Asians. I would suggest that British Asian is traditionally a more common term than Asian British, however the UK census (hence most of the ethnic statistics industry) uses Asian British as the preferred term. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 15:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Weaselling

This article's wording seems to carefully dance around to avoid dealing with one of the most prominent current issues, which is that a significant number of non-Muslims of subcontinental origin don't really want to be indiscriminately lumped together with Muslims anymore -- see UK Hindus unhappy with 'Asians' tag etc. AnonMoos 06:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Anna Leonowens

Deleted the convoluted paragraph about Anna Leonowens and her great-nephew Boris Karloff. Neither of these celebrities identified themselves as Asian, so they shouldn't be included as examples of British Asian celebrities.199.111.194.169 14:09, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

PERSIANS

Many Iranians Identify as `Asian' in tghe census, THEY ARE NOT CLASSED AS `ASIAN' IN SOCIETY!!! This articles images has three `Iranis', one Indian and one pakistani at the title!! Indians make up the majority of `Asians' in Britain. GIVE 3 ``INDO- ARYAN"" PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!