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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by AK63 (talk | contribs) at 10:26, 30 December 2021 (→‎Forsaken in Aramaic). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Hello, I am the IP editor - you could call me A.J.K.

Thank you for your concern,

When are direct references to the Bible not considered original research? Is this not considered to be a primary source?

All the best, Andrew

Thanks again, I appreciate it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.158.212 (talk • contribs) 18:02, 6 October 2010‎

Forsaken in Aramaic

Currently the article gives "In Aramaic, the phrase was/is rendered, "אלי אלי למה סואחטאני"." I am no Aramaic scholar but is this correct? סואחטאני does not transliterate as σαβαχθανί (sabachthani). Perhaps it should be שבקתני? Greenshed (talk) 19:22, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I teach Hebrew and a little Aramaic. Greenshed is right to question the transliteration, which looks like gibberish to me. It should be rendered שבקתני.Ciacg (talk) 01:25, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Sorry guys, am seeing this rather late (based on the date you have posted your debate comments here), but I beg to DIFFER with you, GREATLY!

As a LINGUIST & NATIVE HEBREW speaker as well as a speaker of Arabic & some Aramaic. I would ascertain that Jesus's last words (when addressing God) would be more in line with the Hebrew root verb: ז-ב-ח to sacrifice!), This can become quite CONFUSING as, in Arabic, the (RELATED, MIND YOU!) verb for: massacre (ظبح) would be pronounced in Hebrew as: DHabach/ד'בח while, in Hebrew, it would be spelled with the letter ט (טבח) Hence, Jesus's asking God: "? אלוה, למה זבחתני" (God, why have you SACRIFICED me?). However, Jesus could have equally well have asked God: "? אלוה, למה טבחתני" (God, why have you massacred me?=Elo'ha, lama te'vah'tanee) or, "? אלוה, למה שבקתני" (God, why have you taken the life out of me?=Elo'ha, lama she'vaq'tanee)-even: "? אלוה, למה זנחתני" (God, why have you forsaken me?=Elo'ha, lama znah'tanee). Either way, ALL FOUR question-"scenarios" are possible & would make sense! There is NO DEFINITIVE way of STATING what EXACTLY Jesus has said on the cross. My gut feeling/intuition guides me to the verb with the meaning of: sacrifice (would make much more sense to me that Jesus did NOT make himself or want to come across as a FAITHLESS God's VICTIM by asking God why he has forsaken him (questioning God's positive nature & faith in his human creation-especially, when some of Jesus followers, consider Jesus to be: the "son God" & his father forsaking him would NOT hold much ground...! However, to sacrifice someone is in line with the idea that Jesus was sent to Earth to "pay" for (& wash off) human sins & was sacrificed like a pure lamb on God's alter/for God's sake. AK63 (talk) 10:26, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Verse for Psalm 22?

In all English translations of Psalm 22:1 (according to BibleGateway.com), "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" or words to that effect appear in verse 1. However, the link cited (Hebrew and English):

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2622.htm#1

shows that phrase in verse 2.

Should a different link be used for verse 1? Or should the citation text say "Psalm 22:2" to match the existing link?

FYI, a discussion of this section has been archived:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sayings_of_Jesus_on_the_cross/Archive_1#Query_on_%22My_God,_my_God,_why_have_you_forsaken_me?%22

100.35.136.237 (talk) 04:19, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fixing translation inconsistency

I want to explain two changes I made with this edit.

Firstly, the opening section redundantly listed the sayings three times. I deleted the latter two of these lists, as the table contains all the necessary information (viz. the order of the sayings, and which gospels they come from).

Secondly, the Bible quotes throughout the article were confusingly taken from a variety of different translations – NIV, KJV, NKJV, NRSV, ESV. And adding to this confusion, the cited translation was frequently not the one the quote was taken from. For consistency, I've converted all the quotes to KJV. I chose KJV because: (a) it's already the most-used translation in the article; (b) it's public domain, so no copyright issues with quoting from it; and (c) these are the best-known versions of the sayings (for instance, "they know not what they do" is almost proverbial, as opposed to NIV's "they do not know what they are doing").

Any issues, feel free to revert and discuss. Dan from A.P. (talk) 11:41, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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