Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fantasy couture

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 00:19, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fantasy couture

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"Fantasy couture" is a journalistic/PR buzzword/phrase which seeminglu doesn't have an official meaning or definition. Personally, I know what it means, but too many people won't - and this article doesn't really give a clear explanation nor provide sourcing that goes into depth about what exactly fantasy couture is. While the names mentioned here are individually notable, the genre/categorisation apparently isn't quite happening/catching on yet. I raised the category Category:Fantasy couture designers (also created by article creator) for discussion as it seemed too subjective, and was informed that there are published sources - which I had already looked for last night. So I had another look for these sources just to make doubly sure. I'll add my findings in a separate comment below. (TL:DR: basically, only passing references to the phrase found, apparently no books or articles specifically about fantasy couture as a movement, pieces mainly focused on individuals).

For the record, I'm actually surprised there weren't any books or articles specifically focused on the subject (goodness knows there are LOTS of titles about wearable art and individual designers whose work would be considered fantasy couture) and I'm sure it is only a matter of time before such books come out, but right now in their absence, it seems a bit WP:TOOSOON Mabalu (talk) 17:16, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Arts-related deletion discussions. Mabalu (talk) 17:16, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. Mabalu (talk) 17:16, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - As stated above, here is the longer text showing my attempts to research this subject:

Google Scholar: 5 article hits, none relevant.
Books: Only a handful of the most passing of mentions. It appears that there are no books or publications specifically focused on "fantasy couture". I checked over on Amazon, and it tells me there is a book about Guo Pei coming out in April that is subtitled "Couture Fantasy",(plus a related colouring book), but apart from that, nothing came up using fantasy couture either as a keyword nor in the title. Google Books pulled up an exhibition exhibition catalogue titled "Opulence and Fantasy: Couture Gowns and Jewelry of Mindy Lam" where the phrase appears purely circumstantially. This also happens with this hit from a 1994 magazine where it turns out that the phrase match actually has a line break in the middle, even if it were not ad copy. Most book hits are passing mentions, such as this which is pretty much promo.
News: Two hits from Vogue - 1 2- that basically just use the term in a journalistic buzzword sense. This is also the case here. There is something a TINY bit more substantial here, a designer "established" as a "fantasy couture and bridal" line, but it is in passing and not gone into depth. The only attempt I found trying to define the term "fantasy couture" is this, albeit in an attempt to contextualise Iris van Herpen, rather than talking about the bigger picture of other designers working in this genre - and it is basically a single sentence at the beginning of an article, which is not really enough to build a whole piece on. (Interestingly, a high % of hits for "fantasy couture" are about Iris van Herpen, ie [1] [2], although the existence of Bobby Love is enough not to argue for redirection to Iris van Herpen.)

The main problem with the sources cited in the article is that they are about individuals, rather than the bigger picture of an official movement called "fantasy couture", and we need sources about the movement to prove that it IS a movement, and not just individuals doing their own thing. Some of the articles cited in the current piece also use the term as a snappy buzzword. For example, Annekadote's blog/reposted published article about Iris van Herpen uses the phrase in the title, but does not write about "fantasy couture" as an actual movement in the article, only saying "Van Herpen’s mesmerising finale dress captures all the possibilities of the fantasy and otherworldliness of couture" in the text (so, all couture is fantasy?). The articles about Bobby Love are about a single designer and are 100% appropriate for Love's article, but do not seem to throw any light on the idea that there is an official movement called "fantasy couture" as opposed to designers who design fantasy garments at a couture level (so, basically almost ALL couture level designers). The Stephen Jones piece is about designing Barbie clothing and the phrase only gets tossed out at the very end: "Every Barbie needs a Christmas cocktail party dress, so I used the idea of a Santa hat to make a futuristic fantasy couture piece." - again, just a passing buzzword. The final citation, a piece on artist Mary Sibande, is interesting because it is used to support the article's listing of Sibande as a fantasy couturier, but the actual quote is "{...}reminiscent of {...} John Galliano’s 1990s fantasy couture" - so it is not even saying it is Sibande who is a fantasy couture designer, but Galliano - who is not even namechecked in the article.

While the phrase "fantasy couture" absolutely does exist and clearly has appropriate contexts, there does not appear to be much (if anything) written about an official (or unofficial) "Fantasy Couture" movement other than when journalists describe individuals as designing "fantasy couture". Significantly more has been written about wearable art, including discourse about how designers such as Schiaparelli or Iris van Herpen designed work that relates directly to wearable art (and can arguably also be called fantasy couture, but to say so in the context of their being part of a "movement" would be original research). Until such time as somewhere like the Metropolitan Museum of Art mounts a major exhibition defining "Fantasy Couture" with accompanying catalogue and media coverage, I think unfortunately Wikipedia is not the place to try and make "fantasy couture" happen. Mabalu (talk) 17:22, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This seems like a neologism that is loosely defined. It would probably have to be part of a studied phenomenon or a common term for it to merit its own page. BuySomeApples (talk) 02:21, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.