Talk:Paul Staines

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

Move to Paul Staines?

It looks as though this article is going to be more about Paul Staines than his pseudonym, Guido Fawkes. I propose creating a Paul Staines article and moving this page to it. Alan Pascoe 16:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Citations needed under Early life and education

I got these facts from Altered State : The Story of Ecstasy Culture and Acid House, as this is a link to Amazon and you can search inside the book (using the search term 'Staines'). But I can't work out how to cite this reference. I will come back to it in due course, but if anyone can help that would be great!) Skandha ji 15:37, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look at the templates shown here [1]--62.136.238.65 23:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Source of Lawyer's Letter

The information about the Nevis company is cited here - does anyone know where this letter is from? As a blind link, how reliable is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.189.123.235 (talk • contribs)

Not very, I've removed it. I've left the text in, apart from the statement about Nevis. The rest of the information appears in the footer of the Guido Fawkes blog. Alan Pascoe 14:11, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have reinserted the reference to Nevis with improved sources. DWaterson 17:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This section has a problem - a legal problem. The reason why the blog is published through Nevis is stated to be through some desire to make libel actions more difficult (the claim being that you have to deposit $25,000 to start a libel case). However, this is actually irrelevant. So long as the author of an alleged libel is based in the United Kingdom, they can be sued through the United Kingdom courts. The Nevis connection would only apply if anyone wishing to sue wanted also to target the publisher, but such actions are only secondary to the main action which is always directed at the author. Fys. Ta fys aym. 15:42, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can anyone confirm that Nevis is an actual jurisdiction? I have always understood if to be just one half of the Federation of St Kitts and Nevis. See here [2] that the tourist board for Nevis links to St. Kitts and Nevis government site [3]. 62.136.238.65 03:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Guido Fawkes

The redirect is inappropriate. Guido is much better known than Staines. 147.114.226.174 09:33, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The original article was for Guido Fawkes (blogger), but very quickly the article contained more material about Paul Staines than his blog persona. Alan Pascoe 21:33, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Some arse buggering about appears to have removed the only reference we have that Staines is actually Guido Fawkes. Since we know that Staines is in a litigious mood, is it safe to link his name to a blog for "Tittle Tattle Gossip and Rumours"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.136.238.65 (talk) 00:24, 19 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Comment from the Subject

It is not my intention to amend this article in any way.

Assertions are being made without any evidence beyond hearsay and the scribblings of journalists whom I have never met or spoken with.

I am a private person and am increasingly bemused by what is taken for fact. I hold no public office, no position in a public company and no position on a board or a public body of any kind whatsoever. Just because something is written elsewhere does not make it a fact. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paul.Staines (talk • contribs) 18:25, 17 September 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Paul, feel free to edit your own article if you wish, this is no longer a taboo given the current revision of Wikipedia policy on biographies of living persons. If there is a comment which you contend is untrue, and in the article it is either unsourced or the source is wrong, then correct it. Personally, I can't see anything terribly controversial or unbalanced myself at the moment, whether it be from the 'scribblings of journalists' or not, however... Whilst you may be right in stating you are a private individual with no official role, you undoubtedly are notable in Wikipedia's terms as the author of one of Britain's top-ranking blogs. If you'd prefer that this article be located at Guido Fawkes rather than under your own name, I assume people would be happy to consider that request. DWaterson 18:18, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Have you any verifiable evidence beyond speculation as to the identity of the author of the Guido Fawkes blog? No. It is not for me to edit your article. Suffice to say that from the very first line it is riddled with errors. The whole article is unsupported by the evidence and based on mere assertion. Paul.Staines

1. For the avoidance of doubt, I am not the original author of this article, I am merely a minor contributor to it, and I do not speak on behalf of the Wikipedia community.
2. Surely you must agree, as with some of your own articles, that there is a point at which the weight of circumstantial evidence becomes unavoidable. Every source I have read names Mr Paul Staines as the author of the Guido Fawkes blog, and as such there appears to be no evidence to the contrary, beyond these comments. This is sourced according to the linked citations; if these are all incorrect, then that is unfortunate and should be corrected, based on new more accurate sources.
3. The first paragraph alone makes a number of value judgements, which I personally do not think are unreasonably unencyclopaedic; however, the community may disagree and wish to revise in accordance with Wikipedia policy.
4. In any case, I personally am a keen reader of the Guido Fawkes blog, and have no interest in entering into a dispute, so hereby withdraw from this discussion. DWaterson 00:56, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sheer weight of evidence, and media statements, strongly link Staines to Guido, so that's sufficient for the article. Guido's repeated mentions in the media (and complaints if they take his stories without doing so) make him a public figure, so this article is warranted. Describing him as a conservative is always a value judgement, but you don't have to be a member of the Socialist Workers Party to be a socialist, and although Guido was originally described as an "equal opportunities stirrer" by the media when they first noticed him, the recent political slant of his column does tend to lead a number of people to feel that would describe his political leanings as not being completely non-partisan [4] [5]. As such, I feel the current statements are defensible, as reflecting the current opinion in the related media. 128.243.220.41 14:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Friends Reunited as a source for the subject's schooling

The Friends Reunited reference is clearly written by Paul Staines, is detailed and of long standing - it is as good a reference as some of the conjecture on this page surely? Nakedbatman 17:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, it is a poor source. The existing source is a published book, which is clearly more reliable. This is all made clear on WP:V. Alan Pascoe 19:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I must say, it does raise doubt about the accuracy of the current claim about his schooling. Whilst friendsreunited is clearly a dubious source, nevertheless the conflicting evidence perhaps indicates we should remove the statement altogether until it is clarified by a third source? After all, published books are often wrong too... DWaterson 21:27, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Because FU is an unreliable source, I don't think it is strong enough to question the reliability of a published book. Of course, I am making assumption; I am assuming that the book actually states what is in the article. I have not seen the book myself. On the other hand, I have not seen the FU entry. When I visited the link provided by User:Nakedbatman, all I got was a login screen. Alan Pascoe 22:58, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's my concern too. I haven't read the book either, and there is a possibility that it is either incorrectly sourced, or does not actually support the claim it is supposed to do. My inclination would be, given Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons, to delete the statement altogether pending further reliable sources being identified. I'm not convinced that it is a question of the relative weight to be ascribed to a (purportedly) reliable vs a (purportedly) unreliable source, rather that, even if one is in fact unreliable, it has nevertheless cast enough reasonable doubt over the whole matter to take precautionary action. DWaterson 00:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed it. It appears likely that it is false. It's not like the book is available online to verify it anyway Nssdfdsfds 23:05, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hull University?

The Guardian article says Staines was at Humberside College of Higher Education, which was merged into the University of Lincoln, via the "University of Lincolnshire and Humberside". So unless someone has a good source, we should avoid saying Staines was at Hull University. (NB Back in 1986 the college wasn't yet a Poly, which happened in 1990.[6]) Rwendland 14:21, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

UK Atari Video Games Champion.

Can anyone provide a reference for this material? --62.136.238.65 01:21, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's quite a claim, maybe we should give it more prominence on the page?--Pogsurf 10:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How about we delete it? Sounds good to me.--Tom 19:03, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There was a reference, to "Collin, Matthew; Godfrey, John (1998). Altered State: The Story of Ecstasy Culture and Acid House, 2nd edition, London: Serpent's Tail. ISBN 1852426047. " However, someone's removed the reference. Incidentally it appears it was actually the Atari Asteroids championship. There's a fairly interesting, even if not WP:RS, from Staines, saying it in the comments here: http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/003392.html The book is a perfectly good source though. Nssdfdsfds 21:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It was sourced, but the source got lost as collateral damage in this edit: [7]. The reference can be restored when the page is unprotected. If possible, I will try and get hold of a copy of the cited book and verify the reference, but I'm not sure whether my local library will hold such an, eh, interesting text :) Cheers, DWaterson 22:04, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like the book was rather more reliable than its summariser. Try searching for 'Atari' here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1852426047/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-9373996-5148159 Page 99 says: Staines came first in "an Atari Asteroids championship". He's also described as a Harrow schoolboy - not a Harrow School boy. Obviously whoever added the claim in was more familiar with Harrow the school than Harrow the rather large and populous area of London..... It's no different from describing someone as a former Essex schoolboy. Nssdfdsfds 22:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Altered State : The Story of Ecstasy Culture and Acid House

Re [8]

Staines is on pp 99-101,108,110-114,116,118,120 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nssdfdsfds (talk • contribs) 22:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Guardian article dated 31 May 1986

There are several "juicy" quotes about Staines, in connection with the link he tried to set up between the Federation of Conservative Students at the Humberside college of Higher Education and the BNP (Tory Student Leader In Racist Party 'Link'). Does anyone else think we should add them into Staines' profile? Lobster blogster 03:20, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]