Talk:Allosaurus

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I changed the translation on "άλλο" (allo), since it doesn't mean "strange" or different, but "another" ("anderer" in German, "ellers" in Norvegian).

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If you look at this revision - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Allosaurus&oldid=30169764 - under the 'Findings' section of the article the second and third paragraphs are messed up. The end of the final sentence of paragraph two and the beginning of the first sentece of paragraph three are omitted, and the paragraphs are separated by two rows of dashes.

The paragraphs/sentences were complete in the December 2, 2005 revisions; the error appears in the first revision on December 4, 2005. I fixed this by repasting the lines from the last December 2, 2005 revision. If this was an accident that occurred while editing that section, please feel free to edit them as originally intended. --Slow Graffiti 06:47, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I just noticed the same thing occurred within the first paragraph of 'Classification and history' - nearly the whole paragraph was missing, but randomly. All that remained was the first half of the first sentence, and the last words of the last sentence. This error appeared on December 4 as well, and the December 2 revision was used to restore the paragraph. --Slow Graffiti 07:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

"Facts"

Every dinosaur article has so many "millions of years" on it. I don't care if the "majority" of the scientific community believe this; if the majority of scientists believed in a flat earth, that wouldn't make it true! Besides, there are a good number of scientists that don't believe in mega-anums, so Wikipedia shouldn't be listing these things as facts. Scorpionman 14:14, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you are posting this here rather than the main dinosaur page, but since you did post here, I'll answer here. There is no need to write "such and such million years ago, unless of course there havent been that many" on every single dinosaur taxon article, just like there's no need to write "such and such fossils have been found, although they might have been placed there by the Devil" or "Chinese people might think this was a dragon" on every single dinosaur page. We also don't recount the entire history of dinosaur paleontology or list every single other dinosaur in a dinosaur taxon article. This is information that is just too general to be placed in an article about a specific dinosaur and better suited to one of the main dinosaur pages, links to which are provided in the article.

Wikipedia articles about specific religions don't list every possible alternative religion. Instead, Wikipedia provides links to them all (or most of them) on the page about religion, which IS linked to from every specific religion page. Criticisms of the old earth hypothesis are linked to on several pages related to the age of the Earth, as well as the dinosaur page itself.

Also, not a majority, but 100% of professional dinosaur paleontologists believe in mega-anums. Sheep81

True. In fact, if mega-anums are not real, neither is paleontology, since prehistory itself would by definition not exist.Dinoguy2 17:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter. If 100% of scientists believed in a flat earth, would that make it true? And dinosaur paleontologists don't comprise 100% of scientists, so not all scientists believe in mega-anums. Scorpionman 17:51, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Well thanks for ignoring the previous two paragraphs which were my main point. Dinosaur research is done by dinosaur paleontologists, so their opinion is highly relevant to the subject matter, far moreso than a physicist or astronomer, especially the tiny minority that don't believe in mega-annums (and you would really have to say "don't believe" in this case, since their opinion runs counter to all available scientific evidence). That's all. Sheep81 03:34, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

You should get your facts straight. Not 100% of dinosaur researchers believe in evolution. You just say that because you, like most of the users on this frickin' encyclopedia, are biased against creation. I'm not going to argue this point anymore; it's like arguing with a stone. Scorpionman 21:25, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Name one that doesn't? Sheep81 23:52, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

LOL Scorpionman, Wikipedia is supposed to be about facts, not fantasy *rolls eyes* 24.14.120.92 17:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia uses scientific evidence, not your personal opinion. Maior1 18:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

What was the height for Allosaurus?

Proposed Edit by 67.182.251.180

I discovered the following hidden within the article. It seems to be somebody's version of the article. I thought that the Talk page was a better place for it. Jimp 04:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

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Allosaurus was a huge carnivore. Allosaurus probably ate herbivore dinosaurs, like stegosaurs and iguanadons. It could kill medium-sized sauropods, and sick or injured large saurpods like apatosaurs and others of its kind. Allosaurus may have been a scavenger. Allosaurus probably had competition with Ceratosaurus, though Allosaurus was much larger.

Bones of big sauropods, like Camarasaurus, Diplodocus, and Apatosaurus have Allosaurus tooth marks. A huge sauropod was most likely to big for even one Allosaurus to kill, so scientists think Allosuarus probably hunted in packs to kill such big Plant-eaters. But maybe Allosaurus could’ve only gone after injured or sick dinosaurs, not risking being killed by a strong and healthy Sauropod, or a whack of a tail.

A recent study found that Allosaurus’ powerful bite was not in the musles of its jaws, but its neck and reinforced skull. It would gape and cleave flesh from its prey by using its powerfully-muscled neck to wield its impact-resistant skull like an axe. This would have done far more damage than simply opening and closing its jaws.

Allosaurus was a Carnosaur, and his intelligence was high. His EQ ( Enephalization Quotient, or how its brain measured to its body) was about 1.9 EQ.

In 1998, an Allosaurus nest was discovered in Wyoming. Fossils of adults and young were found, along with tons of Herbivore bones. The bones had teeth marks from young and from grown Allosaurs. This shows that Allosaurs may have brought food back to the nests to feed to their young.

It’s not determined that Allosaurs were able to communicate vocally besides a hiss. But because their closest living relatives, birds and crocodiles can, it probably means Allosaurus could too. It’s certain that Allosaurus used visual communication some what. The crest on its head is proof of this. Its crest was probably colorful. Communicating by bobbing the head was probably part of courting and telling of enemies. Showing its massive teeth was probably another way of warding of threats.

During the Mesozoic era, the climate was warmer, the seasons were mild, the sea level was higher, and there was no polar ice. In the mid-Jurassic, Laurasia and Gondwanaland started forming because Pangaea was breaking apart. By the late Jurassic, the spreading of Laurasia and Gondwanaland was almost complete. The climate of the Jurassic period was hot and dry, but later changed, with no polar ice, warm and moist, and very much flooding in vast areas. Pterosaurs starting flying in the sky.

The seas during the Jurassic period were home to tons of coral reefs, fish, ichthyosaurs, (fishlike reptiles), plesiosaurs, giant marine crocodiles, ammonites, squid, sharks, and rays.

Triassic plant lines continued. Many palm-like trees, called Cycads were around. There was also many seed ferns, gingkos, and conifers in the subtropical forests.

So far, more than sixty complete and partial Allosaurus skeletons have been found. They’ve been found in Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, Montana, South Dakota, Oklahoma, and possibly Portugal and Tanzania.

In one quarry here in Utah, remains of at least 44 Allosaurs were found mixed together! The teeth of Allosaurus are the most common remains of theropods from the late Jurassic in the American West.

In 1991 a 95% complete Allosaurus skeleton was found, and was later named Big Al. the skeleton was excavated near Shell, Wyoming by the Museum of the Rockies and the University of Wyoming Geological Museum. It was originally discovered by a Swiss team led by Kirby Siber. They later found a second Allosaurus, named “Big Al Two”. It’s the best preserved skeleton of Allosaurus yet.

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Joe Tucciarone Image

User:Maior1 has repeatedly added the image Image:A maximus.jpg by Joe Tucciarone to the article. The image was marked for deletion becuase it did not have the correct copyright status, yet this tag has been removed. Mr. Tucciarone's own website, which Maior1 linked to and apparently misinterpreted, allows for only paid commercial use of his images. Maior1 has provided no evidence that he provided Mr. Tucciarone with any kind of payment for the image's use on Wikipedia. Maior1 said on the image page: "Fair use rationale: Picture of an allosauras belongs on the allosaurus article. No further explanation required". This is in no way the case. Unless that image was part of a news story or press kit, as is the case with stills from movies like Walking With Dinosaurs, images are the SOLE property of the artist who created them. Images are not simply public domain just because they are used in a relavant discussion. If one of my images appeared in a dinosaur book, without my consent, even if that book was given away free, I would fight for compensation, and all the other paleoartists I know would do the same. This image must be deleted, and if Maior1 persists in adding it to the allosaurus page, action should be taken against him. I don't have a strong opinion on many things, but artist's rights are one exception. Either get permission from Joe Tucciarone and replace the "marked for deletion" copyright tag, or have the image deleted.Dinoguy2 14:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Different then, or still different?

"Allosurus ... was named 'different lizard' because its vertebrae were different from those of all other dinosaurs." -- Should this be "different from those of all other dinosaurs known at that time"?, or are its vertebrae still considered distinctive (in which case we want a note on just what's so darn distinctive about them.) -- Writtenonsand 18:28, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Many dinosaurs were given names and the meanings not clarified at the time, which cna make it hard 150 years on ti figure out what the original namer was thinking. I think we'll look into it at some point. Someone will probably need to see the original paper from 1879......Cas Liber 20:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

158million

Taxonomy of Allosaurus

Loewen (2004) performed an analysis of all of specimens of Allosaurus found in the Morrison Formation to determine how many Allosaurus species exist, and he concluded that only two species of Allosaurus are valid: Allosaurus fragilis Marsh, 1877 and Allosaurus "jimmadseni" Chure, 2000. He concluded also that Antrodemus may not be a specimen of Allosaurus after all, since no information on its time period and provenance were provided, and that Saurophaganax is a distinct genus. The synonymy of Allosaurus from North America is as follows:

Allosaurus Marsh, 1877

=Creosaurus Marsh, 1878

=Epanterias Cope, 1878

=Labrosaurus Marsh, 1879

Allosaurus fragilis Marsh, 1877

= Creosaurus atrox Marsh, 1878

= Allosaurus atrox (Marsh, 1878) Paul, 1987

= Antrodemus atrox (Marsh, 1878) Gilmore, 1920

= Allosaurus lucaris Marsh, 1878

= Epanterias amplexus Cope, 1878

= Labrosaurus lucaris (Marsh, 1878) Marsh, 1879

= Labrosaurus ferox Marsh, 1884

= Allosaurus ferox Marsh, 1896

= Labrosaurus fragilis (Marsh, 1877) Nopsca, 1901

= Antrodemus lucaris (Marsh, 1878) Hay, 1902

= Antrodemus fragilis (Marsh, 1877) Lapparent and Zbyszewski, 1957

= Antrodemus ferox (Marsh, 1896) Ostrom and McIntosh, 1966

= Allosaurus amplexus (Cope, 1878) Paul, 1988

= Allosaurus trihedrodon (Cope, 1877) Glut, 1997

= Laelaps trihedrodon Cope, 1877

= Dryptosaurus trihedrodon (Cope, 1877) Hay, 1902

= Creosaurus trigonodon (Cope, 1877) Osborn, 1931 [sic]

= Antrodemus trihedrodon (Cope, 1877) Kuhn, 1939

= Hypsirophus trihedrodon (Cope, 1877) Cope vide Chure, 2001

= Allosaurus whitei Pickering, 1996 [nomen nudum]

= Allosaurus carnegeii Levin, 2003 [nomen nudum]

Allosaurus "jimmadseni" [nomen ex dissertationae]

This analysis confirms that Creosaurus, Epanterias, and Labrosaurus are synonymous with Allosaurus, and the type species of each genus are different growth stages or diseased individuals of Allosaurus. Therefore, remove Camptonotus, Saurophaganax and Antrodemus from synonymy with Allosaurus and merge the Epanterias page with Allosaurus, as Loewen demonstrated Epanterias to be conspecific with Allosaurus fragilis. Also, reomove Allosaurus atrox from the species list under Allosaurus because it is intraspecific within A. fragilis

My name is Vahe Demirjian.

Loewen, M. A., 2004. VARIATION AND STRATIGRAPHIC DISTRIBUTION OF ALLOSAURUS WITHIN THE LATE JURASSIC MORRISON FORMATION. 2004 Denver Annual Meeting: 226-4. http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2004AM/finalprogram/abstract_80940.htm

I think A. atrox is still used frequently enough that it shuold remain in the article for now. When Chure's thesis is published officially (he also find no diagnostic characters of A. atrox to differentiate it from the other species), A. atrox can be pretty safely removed from the taxobox list. For now, use Loewen 2004 and Chure 2000 as a basis for an explaination of the species situation in the text. Dinoguy2 18:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Allosaurus atrox, A. amplexus

Does Smith (1998) synonymize Allosaurus atrox (Marsh, 1878) [originally Creosaurus] and A. amplexus (Cope, 1878) [originally Epanterias] with A. fragilis? If so, Allosaurus atrox should be removed from the taxobox and Epanterias is a junior synonym of Allosaurus fragilis.

D. K. Smith. 1998. A morphometric analysis of Allosaurus. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 18(1):126-142. 72.194.116.63 17:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)Vahe Demirjian 09.37 20 February 2007

It explicitly states in the article that Smith Came to the conclusion that Epanterias and Saurophaganax are the same species as A. Fragilis. --Johnny89 01:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

The Astragalus

From what I had heard, the astragalus discovered in Victoria has been assigned to several different animals, from allosaurs to alvarezsaurs to giant ornithomimosaurs. Unless recent evidence has finally proven once and for all that it DID belong to an allosaur, it would be nice to at least mention that it has been referred to other animals, too. 71.217.98.158 00:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC) Even if it was an allosaur, how did it get to Austrila?