Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dinosaurs

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WikiProject Dinosaurs (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of WikiProject Dinosaurs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of dinosaurs and dinosaur-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Automatedly adding fossil taxa described in year categories[edit]

I was considering making a bot request to automatically add Category: Fossil taxa described in 2014 (or whatever year) to all of our relevant articles based on the years listed under the genus authority heading of the article infoboxes. Do you support this initiative? Abyssal (talk) 14:16, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Sounds nice. FunkMonk (talk) 14:53, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Portal:Paleozoic renominated for featured portal status[edit]

Today I renominated the Paleozoic Portal for featured portal status. The last nomination failed because no one, apparently, could be arsed to comment on it. :( Your comments and criticism are welcome at the new nomination page. Abyssal (talk) 03:07, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject Dinosaurs At Wikimania 2014[edit]

Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to: Project leaflets Adikhajuria (talk) 16:22, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

We should categorize dinosaur articles by stratigraphic source[edit]

Our current categorization scheme for articles on dinosaur genera (and prehistoric animals generally) is difficult to use and profoundly misleading. Apart from taxonomic categories, we tend to categorize taxa by their continental landmass of origin and their age to the period level. However, this categorization scheme lumps taxa with little in common together in overpopulated categories that are hard to navigate and serve little purpose. Categorizing dinosaurs by continent (example) is not especially useful because the dinosaurs in question may have lived hundreds of miles from each other and be separated by millions of years in time. Also, there are so many taxa in these categories that no one can be expected to read them all, so from a reader's perspective the category is useless. Categorizing taxa by time period (example) has similar problems. Since a period is tens of millions of years long, most of the animals that lived during a given period would not be contemporaries. This makes categorizing them together misleading as many readers probably don't understand the full scale of a geologic period and will come away thinking they lived side-by-side.

I think we can capture the benefits and avoid the pitfalls of the broad geographic and chronological categories by categorizing taxa by the formations in which they are found (eg creating categories like "Morrison Formation", "Yixian Formation", etc). This system would group chronologically contemporary or nearly contemporary taxa with taxa of similar geographic ranges in categories that are manageable in size for the reader. I'm okay with us keeping the geographic and chronological categories in addition to stratigraphic categories, but if we do so I really think they need to be much more specific, like categorizing taxa by country or age instead of continent and period. Abyssal (talk) 18:39, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Sounds good, at least initially as an additional category. Though this would be slightly redundant with "Paleobiota of..." articles. Dinoguy2 (talk) 11:22, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

New photos from Patagonian dinosaurs[edit]

Hi, I want to share here this photos that have been taken for a user from the es:Wiki, Gastón Cuello, who lives in Argentina. These are from the Egidio Feruglio Museum in Trelew, and includes photos from the recently discovered giant titanosaur from Patagonia. So, here is the images of Tyrannotitan:

And the titanosaur fossils:

I hope that some of these will be useful. --Rextron (talk) 20:50, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Nice, I'll add some of it! He has other interesting images too, many of them uncategorised, not sure what this is: FunkMonk (talk) 20:54, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
I added the teeth of Tyrannotitan, these are from the same site of the titanosaur. I'll ask him about the identity of this sauropod.--Rextron (talk) 21:18, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
The mounted skeleton of the sauropod is Epachthosaurus.--Rextron (talk) 23:18, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Awesome book![edit]

Yesterday, I got Paleoart of Julius Csotonyi and this book is AWESOME!!:) There is not much text in this baby, but the pictures are just stellar!! Julius Csotonyi is one of the world greatest paleoartist, whose skill is rivalled by very few. We have some of his images on wikipedia, namely his Linhenykus and Dinosaur Park Formation fauna. If anyone who does not own this would like to see his glory, I can email them some scans of the images, once I get to scanning them. Some articles, such as Guanlong, Spinops, Ornithomimus and Utahraptor, are given an overview in it, and are illustrated amazingly. A recommendation to all dinosaur lovers who just love to see them restored to their fullest, Paleoart of Julius Csotonyi is just irreplaceable. IJReid (talk) 04:18, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

  • "Dinosaur Art" was pretty good. I kind of prefer Raul Martin, I'm not too fond of the photoshopped plant photographs and that stuff... FunkMonk (talk) 19:21, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Commons template for inaccurate models[edit]

I see on commons we have a large number of the inaccurate restorations category filled up by models. I was wondering if someone with more template experience than I could create a new template, or just a new parameter for inaccurate models, that categorizes them in a category for inaccurate models. The new category would be images that are almost impossible to correct, unless the inaccuracies can be cropped out. This would greatly clear up the inaccurate restorations cat, which would make it quicker and easier to find and correct errors in illustrations. IJReid (talk) 23:37, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't think any of the regulars can do it, try to ask the creator of the template. FunkMonk (talk) 23:42, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Just a question: Inaccurate according to whom? Do restorations change often over time? What about, hypothetically, species for which there is modern debate about "accurate restorations" The template in question: Template:Inaccurate paleoart, would be improved if there was a requirement to justify the claim of inaccuracy (e.g. "Inaccurate as per Smith, 2005, Journal of Paleontology". Otherwise, this could be construed as original research (e.g. some wikipedian thinks this is inaccurate but doesn't explain why.) It might be better just to clearly specify the date the restoration was created or published, and include relevant alternate restorations in any articles (e.g. "restoration1 from 1905." "Restoration 2 from 2005"). --Animalparty-- (talk) 00:06, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
There is already a parameter for outdated/historical restorations.[1] As for citations, yes, some of them already have them, would be nice if they all did. But in some cases with newer restorations, with for example unfeathered maniraptorans or pronated hands, there is really no discussion at this point. And some Commons images are also just so badly drawn as to be unusable. FunkMonk (talk) 00:11, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
I have requested to User:Calliopejen1, the creator, that both a references and a model parameter be added to the template, so we'll see what happens. IJReid (talk) 00:30, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
References can already be cited with links or just text referneces[2], not sure what parameter you would add. For a list of dinosaurs restoration guidelines with sources, see: FunkMonk (talk) 00:58, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
I think that the "reason=" parameter is fine as it is -- references can be added within that parameter. I guess I'm not sure what you mean by a "model" category -- do you mean 3D models? Calliopejen1 (talk) 01:54, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Calliopejen1 By that I mean a category that contains inaccurate dinosaur models, such as images in commons:Category:Dinosaur models, so yes, 3D models. IJReid (talk) 01:59, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Some images[edit]

I've noted that this user has uploaded some interesting dinosaur images in Commons, but I'm afraid that they have copyright... --Rextron (talk) 15:50, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Considering the uploader's talk page, they were likely lifted from [3] and [4], unfortunately. I'll nominate all three for deletion. jonkerztalk 15:58, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, stuff like that is regularly updated, I have a suspicion that it is done by some kids who don't understand copyright. FunkMonk (talk) 21:48, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Auca Mahuevo and Saltasaurus[edit]

I put here this message that I left in the talk page of Saltasaurus:

As far I know, the fossils from Saltasaurus coming from the Allen Formation, that is younger compared with the Anacleto Formation, where is located the Auca Mahuevo site. So, why are related here in the article? really exists remains that match with Saltasaurus in Auca Mahuevo?--Rextron (talk) 03:27, 23 August 2014 (UTC)


Someone just created an article for Datanglong, but it's pretty obviously a machine translation of the NL:WP version. I don't have time to fix it right now, but someone ought to take a look. J. Spencer (talk) 02:35, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I've fixed some words and added the taxobox and references, but still needs work in the grammar. By the way, I couldn't link the Dutch version with Wikidata.--Rextron (talk) 18:45, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
Thank you! A "big roofsauriër" just didn't seem to cut it in WP:EN. J. Spencer (talk) 18:38, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
Currently trying to make the taxobox look better, myself; currently, is what I've got for the phylogeny. Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 15:55, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal[edit]

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Bringosaurus, no refs, hoax?[edit]

Apologies if I'm jumping the gun here but Bringosaurus seems suspect. The image is appropriated from and I find no evidence on line, although there is an unnamed specimen with a similar locale described here. --Animalparty-- (talk) 04:57, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Most certainly a hoax. The image is of Coelophysis, which is apparently a relative, but the image itself obviously does not depict Bringosaurus. The author of the page is not a very common editor here (will look into that more). Nowadays, new dinosaur discoveries are given much publicity, but googling Bringosaurus only comes up with three results, at least two of which are wikipedia. It might be that the paper is in the process of being published, but even then I find no evidence of it, and the name Bringosaurus is a nomen nudum until the paper is published. Basically, once I check through the contributions of the author, I will come back here with what I think we should do. IJReid (talk) 14:14, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
Yeh, all the users contributions revolve around "Bringosaurus", and he has only edited two articles. He modified Colalura Sandstone to add the genus, but that article is basically a stockpiling of WP:OR. Personally, I suspect that the user is just creating a page on a non-existent taxon, and stating that he is the author responsible for it. One correction to my above comment, turns out that "Bringosaurus" is actually a coelurosaurian, not even related to Coelophysis, and the image was completely OR. IJReid (talk) 14:23, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
Make it extinct! FunkMonk (talk) 14:56, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Oh, joy, it's almost certainly User:Yewtharaptor by another name. Yewtharaptor is also back. Devote full scrutiny to this editor's additions; most of them are wishful thinking. J. Spencer (talk) 02:28, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Yewtharaptor has also just gifted the world with an incompetent machine translation of an article on the actual dinosaur Panguraptor, which I redirected to the genera list out of shame, and a half-dozen completely unreliable articles on Australian formations which cannot be speedily deleted because they are actual formations. J. Spencer (talk) 02:48, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
What if those Australian formation stubs were simply merged into a list?--Animalparty-- (talk)
It's not a bad idea, but rewriting Panguraptor should probably be the higher priority at the moment, based on what people will be looking for. J. Spencer (talk) 00:31, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
Well, this "Bringosaurus" has been deleted. About Panguraptor, I'm almost sure that he used the Spanish version, which in turn is based in the Dutch article. I suggest not to use the Spanish version since that it have mistakes of translation too.--Rextron (talk) 06:03, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Expert attention[edit]

This is a notice about Category:Dinosaurs articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. Iceblock (talk) 23:11, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Steneosaurus obtusidens[edit]

Might be worth a look-through. Newly accepted draft passed a very basic check for copyright violations, etc., but has not seen expert review. --j⚛e deckertalk 05:13, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

There appears to be an issue with the Hot Articles list...[edit]

I'm trying to see if I can rectify this myself, but the Hot Articles section appears to have broken a bit. Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 17:54, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Aaaand repairs complete! The cause was a misplaced template part, by the way. Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 18:04, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Dinosaur Mailing List and Primary sources[edit]

  1. I think the information on Primary references over-emphasizes primary sources and downplays the importance of scholarly secondary sources such as review articles and books that are often necessary to give balance and context and avoid undue weight, especially when primary sources (individual studies) conflict. Secondary sources and tertiary sources are actually preferred per WP:SECONDARY, even if for no other reason than to help decide which primary papers to cite and how often.
  2. I think it is a bit misleading to state on the Project Page that Dinosaur Mailing List archives is a non-primary source: regardless of whether experts or general public contribute, it often contain primary information in the broadest sense (e.g. experts discussing things that are unpublished, offering their own speculation, and directly communicating to each other), even more primary than a published article, and hence may fall under user-generated sources. While the disclaimer about "not always be(ing) complete, current, and/or accurate" is laudable, it might also be stressed that DML should almost never be cited as a reliable source, since there is no peer-review on e-mail exchanges, with nods to WP:PRIMARY. --Animalparty-- (talk) 19:36, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
I think using the DML as source is similar to using blogs written by scientists as source, and that is permitted. Though I must admit, after having been on the list for some years, that much of it is utter garbage, with grown scientists acting like children every now and then. FunkMonk (talk) 20:06, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Permitted is different than encouraged. The fact that a single expert posts something or responds to something can easily be misrepresented, given undue weight, or be simply wrong (surely experts aren't above hasty or incomplete posts), and it seems questionable editorial practice to cite something like "Joe Scientist, 5th email response to "Thread about raptors" posted at 3 am", which could be cherry picked or taken out of context. Note WP:USERG states "Self-published material may sometimes be acceptable" (emphasis added), and this is where common sense and the caveats at WP:PRIMARY kick in. DML should be relatively far down on the list of sources to cite and conventionally-published sources should be preferred, even if they state the exact same thing.--Animalparty-- (talk) 20:42, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Thinking about it, I'm pretty sure DML would not be accepted as a reliable source at FAC. FunkMonk (talk) 19:57, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Manual of style for dinosaur articles?[edit]

Other projects[5] have a MOS for how to structure their articles, and though the dinosaurs FAs are broadly similar in structure, a guideline could perhaps be nice. For example, a Palaeoecology section should probably be essential for a dinosaur FA, but a popular site like Triceratops doesn't even have one. Any thoughts? Inspired by this discussion, which didn't really fo anywhere:[6] FunkMonk (talk) 17:50, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

I kind of like the idea, but I'm too preoccupied with other concerns to help draft one. Also, community activity is so low now for whatever reason that it will probably be difficult to get the input of most users such a manual of style would likely affect. I would be against making one official without a consensus of many contributors, but would be totally supportive if you want to begin a draft. Abyssal (talk) 18:15, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
For a start, we could just compile a list of sections commonly found in dino FAs, and the order they appear in. Though there seems to be quite some inconsistency in that. And yeah, not sure why activity is so low. Well, Dinoguy is probably busy writing books... FunkMonk (talk) 18:17, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Agree it's a good idea - it's been a long time since I took a dino article to FA but I do alot of stuff on bio articles. Funkmonk if you want to start a discussion somewhere I'll chip in but my time is pretty patchy... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:56, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Alright, it'll probably just continue here. And something I've thought about for a while, which I'll just write down here to remember it, is the various types of illustrations that would be good to have in an article: A photo of a mounted skeleton/cast. A life restoration. A size comparison. A skeletal diagram. Photos of non-restored fossils. Photos/diagrams of individual skeletal elements. Photo of excavation area. Map showing location of fossil finds. Some of these can be hard to obtain, but for example Nigersaurus contains all of the above, as we were fortunate enough that it had a Plos paper devoted to it. Could be nice with reconstructions of habitat as well, but such are almost impossible to obtain. FunkMonk (talk) 15:59, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
Hey guys, sounds like a good idea. Maybe we should simply copy the heading structure from a good FA into a template article and start from there? (Also I'm thinking paleoecology, paleobiology, paleodescription, paleoreferences, etc. are a bit technical and also redundant.. we know it's paleo because it's prehistoric, why not just say "Ecology" etc., which is more accessible?). It seems like we already have a pretty standard order, with description coming first (containing size/diagrams, basic distinguishing features, major anatomy, and life appearance/soft tissue anatomy) followed by more inference-based stuff like biology and ecology, followed by history of study. Dinoguy2 (talk) 14:36, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Should we also codify style for higher taxon articles? For example, we (somewhere) recently agreed to use two taxobox images of specifiers or close-to-specifiers for node-based clades and basal members for stem-based clades. We would also likely need different variety of sections, but so far higher clades don't really have much of a standardized layout. Dinoguy2 (talk) 14:47, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
I think a standard layout would be good for any articles. At least so we use the same words in the headers, so they are comparable across articles. FunkMonk (talk) 15:02, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

To start out, here are the most commonly used headers and their order (subheaders not listed):

  • Description (sometimes "anatomy and "morphology" in non FAs)
  • Classification (sometimes also "taxonomy" or "systematics")
  • History of discovery (sometimes also "naming" and "identification", or just "discovery" or "history")
  • palaeobiology
  • Palaeoecology (sometimes "provenance")

So would it perhaps be good to standardise the names of the headings also? FunkMonk (talk) 22:34, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Sounds good to me to standardize - happy with the defaults above. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:21, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
Any thoughts on order? What I've listed above seems to be the standard, though there is some variation. I've wondered why similar sections are called classification here, but taxonomy in bird articles? Also, these sections are placed first in extant animals, whereas they are far down in dinosaur article,s any reason for that? FunkMonk (talk) 19:50, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
Should we also have standardized baselines for reconstructions that we use in articles, as well? Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 15:54, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
You mean pose and angle? That would be impossible to enforce, many of our restorations are provided by drive-by uploaders who have no contact with other editors or this project. Not sure what we would gain from it either... FunkMonk (talk) 16:02, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
No, not pose and angle; those are all personal taste. I mean stuff like how sauropod forefeet are lumps with a claw, or the way wings are on maniraptorans that have them; things that are common knowledge to us dedicated students of the field, but may not be to the Joe that makes what he thinks is accurate palaeoart, but is not actually accurate and is either outdated or horribly inaccurate. The entire purpose of the system would be to make sure palaeoart that is submitted to an article is kept as accurate as possible. Emphasising the Image Review page would be a nice first step in that direction, simply because it's an excellent start to the idea. I mean, we already have basic guidelines like "X should not be potrayed with Y", but making a more specific, clade-by-clade guideline should be an option we can consider. Basically, stuff that can be standardized without making illustrations feel "same-y" (like posing, colouration for the dinosaurs who don't have known colourations, that sort of thing) is what I want to see get some standardization.
As an example, let me use dromaeosaurids as a baseline. The standardized Dromaeosauridae guidelines could be:
  • Pennaceous feathers were present on most of the body, but not visibly like plumaceous feathers were. They formed a visibly textureless integument en masse.
  • Wings go all the way down the arm, attaching to digit II (the middle finger) of the hand and terminating at the ungual claw of digit II. Digit III is generally hidden behind the primary feathers in profile view, and would likely not have the same range of movement as digits I and II due to this.
  • Only half of the pedal digits touched the ground; the dewclaw is vestigial and on the ankle and the largest toe was raised off the ground to protect the enlarged pedal claw from dulling.
  • Exposed flesh that once bore feathers is generally wrinkly and scaleless.
  • Openings in the skull bore muscle tissue in life, and as such they were not visible on the living animal.
  • Pupil and iris of the eye were most likely rounded, like a bird's.
Things that ensure accuracy, but maintain the ability to be dynamic with images is what I'm going for with the idea. Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 19:03, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
Ok. Wouldn't it just be an expansion of this?[7] We can expand that page as much as we want, it isn't used for its original purpose anymore (listing artists). Also, a sI mentioned below, a Wikipedia article called "dinosaur life appearance" or some such would be nice,it is certainly a notable subject these days. Plenty of sources for it as well. FunkMonk (talk) 05:50, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Will get back to this soon... FunkMonk (talk) 17:40, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

New article on Fosterovenator[edit]

I've started an article on Fosterovenator that could use some help. If anybody wants to, any help would be appreciated. Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 18:03, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

First step would be to add a citation. FunkMonk (talk) 18:18, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Merry Christmas![edit]

The christmas velociraptor by durbed.jpg

Oh, you'd better watch out, you'd better not cry, you'd better not pout, I'm telling you why

Christmas Velociraptor is coming to town

He sees you when you sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for your life's sake

Oh, you'd better watch out, you'd better not cry, you'd better not pout, I'm telling you why

Christmas Velociraptor is coming to town

Merry Christmas, and watch out for the Christmas Velociraptor, IJReid (talk) 25 December 2014
  • And happy new year! FunkMonk (talk) 19:47, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

List of dinosaur specimens- should it remain?[edit]

The article List of dinosaur specimens seems problematic in that its implied scope arguably includes every specimen ever described. It was previously List of notable dinosaur specimens, which introduced POV issues, but even the current title seems a subjective exercise in pointing to arbitrary interesting fossils, contrary to the objective list selection criteria. Most of the specimens in the list are redirects, not stand-alone articles, and the list as a whole suffers from biases of geography and single source. My question is should we even have this list, or is it too subjective and unrealistic to maintain? Expansion, merging, converting to category, and deletion are some possibilities. --Animalparty-- (talk) 18:08, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Maybe we could rename it to List of notable fossil specimens, which would allow us to introduce stuff like Australopithecus, Tiktaalik and the like? Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 19:07, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
Having Notable in the title is discouraged per WP:LISTNAME, and begs the question: notable to whom? To the paleontologist who discovers a specimen, or perhaps avid paleontology aficionados, every specimen is arguably important (e.g. "the first specimen of Foosaurus discovered in Fooistan from the Foosticene era", etc.), and true, subsequent primary literature may discuss individual specimens, but notability is something different, and I think it is questionable practice to have such massively open-ended lists; a specimen number redirect can weasel its way into any conceivable taxonomic article to justify its existence, as all species are presumed notable, as opposed to say, individual people. Tiktaalik and Australopithecus are already well included in several lists and articles, which obviates inclusion on a subjective notability list. Note we already have a Category:Specific fossil specimens. --Animalparty-- (talk) 23:48, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, I think this is better off as a category rather than a~list. FunkMonk (talk) 05:31, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

I have nominated the list for deletion. Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of dinosaur specimens to comment further. --Animalparty-- (talk) 05:11, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

The result of the discussion was keep. A salient conclusion by the closing administrator was "Those in support of keeping it are now tasked with developing this into a policy-compliant article." All the best! --Animalparty-- (talk) 04:19, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Dinosaur mummy 2[edit]

It was once proposed and re-proposed that we should create an article on dinosaur mummies that could include sections discussing dinosaur specimens with skin, such as Trachodon mummy. I believe that this is an excellent idea, and would comment on the most recent discussion of this if it had not been archived. One modification to what was proposed at the above link, I think that the article should be title Dinosaur specimens preserving integument, as few sources actually call specimens with skin "mummies". Thoughts? IJReid discuss 00:41, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

The problem with the last (as was discussed before) would be that it would hugely expand the scope. But yeah, it may be interesting to have an article about integument. On the other hand, we could even have an article called "dinosaur life appearance" or some such, which would go into every aspect of this (integument, movement, posture, biomechanics, colour, eye placement, historical viws, etc.), similar to the restoration guidance list we have, just with more prose. Could be a blast to write. I can make a draft of such an article if people are interested. We already have aricle ssuch as Dinosaur physiology and Dinosaur intelligence, and I'd say their life appearance is just as notable a subject, but people just take it for granted, and probably wouldn't expect an article devoted to it. The article should first make clear that information inferred for one taxon would probably true for related taxa with less material known, go into phylogenetic bracketing, could be illustrated by stuff like this video[8], and so on. FunkMonk (talk) 05:30, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
  • I'm working on a rough draft of a proposed Dinosaur life appearance article in my sandbox[9] if anyone wants to have a look and chime in (feel free to modify and expand). I'm not sure whether there should be sections about internal appearance as well... And I just remembered I made a suggestion for a similar text back in 2009:[10] FunkMonk (talk) 07:07, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
  • The life appearance article could also link to larger discussions, such as the sauropod neck posture article started by IJReid. FunkMonk (talk) 17:41, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Resurrected dinosaur[edit]

Megapnosaurus (previously a redirect to Coelophysis) was recently restored as an article. You may want to take a look at it. jonkerztalk 19:01, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

And now I've returned it to being a redirect; C.rhodesiensis and C.kayentakatae both have articles of their own, there's no need for a reduntant article for the synonymous name. "Megapnosaurus" is not relevant anymore, at least until someone publishes anything evidencing that it is separate from Coelophysis. It's not like "Brontosaurus", where the synonym is culturally significant; nobody really knows "Megapnosaurus" aside from the people who watched When Dinosaurs Roamed America. Perhaps a new vote may be in order, but I highly doubt it. Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 13:13, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live![edit]

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Hello everyone!

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Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

The GA/FA chart[edit]

Just in case anyone missed it, many moons ago we made a chart - see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Dinosaurs/Dinosaur_collaboration#Chart - to give us an idea of what taxa we were covering etc. I think it might be missing some taxa though...? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:36, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Ouch, yeah, I've been updating this other list for FA/TFA continuously, so that should be ok, not GA and DYK though: FunkMonk (talk) 20:00, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Too much detail on Vertebrate fauna of the Maastrichtian stage[edit]

Recently a certain user has been expanding the descriptions on that page. While I appreciate their effort, the descriptions are way too long. Many of them have full paragraphs and unnecessary detail. Quilmesaurus's description lists all of its diagnostic features! This is not the place for that. Perhaps one of you could take a look at this? Shuvuuia (talk) 23:15, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Jurassic World "outreach"[edit]

With all the drama about JW being inaccurate in many respects, I think moviegoers would go to Wikipedia to double check the various animals featured in the movie. So I was thinking we should maybe have a push to improve/expand articles about the animals featured in the movie, so they are as up to date and give as accurate a picture of the animals as possible? After all, it will probably be the most influential media presence of dinosaurs within the next couple of years, shaping the public perception of them to a large extend, so it will be our main venue for "damage control". Many of the animals feastured already have FA or GA level articles, but could be good to update the rest as well, not necessarily to the FA level, of course.

Animals with adequate articles already:

Animals with articles that could need improvement:

Any thoughts? FunkMonk (talk) 17:46, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

(Courtesy link to Jurassic_World#Scientific_inaccuracies) No problem in double checking and clearly citing pertinent descriptions (with high quality sources), with the reminder to not perform any original synthesis in comparison between movie representations and current thinking, whether in the taxon's article or the film's, or any list of creatures. We can present the facts but cannot say a film representation is wrong or debated unless reliable sources explicitly say so. --Animalparty-- (talk) 20:23, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, I wasn't thinking of referencing the movies specifically in the listed articles, just that the articles should be as up to date as possible. We used to have an entire article about scientific inaccuracies in Jurassic Park, but it was deleted, I think because there was too much original synthesis... FunkMonk (talk) 20:27, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
This could also serve as a reminder of the importance writing with a comprehensive, holistic, historic view of dinosaur research, rather than solely from the most recent or cutting edge perspective. 20 or 30 years ago, the scientific consensus would not have portrayed all theropods as feathered, but that doesn't mean all sources or perspectives from that time are wrong or poor to include. The reasons for previously portraying dinosaurs as sluggish, featherless, whatever, are real and historic, and downplaying or ignoring such history could falsely perpetuate the idea, especially for younger readers, that theropods have always been thought to be feathered. A good article would explain "Foosaurus was long considered to be like this, however discoveries in the early 21st century supported it was actually like this. --Animalparty-- (talk) 20:47, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, that's right. And many of our articles do this, though to a varying extent. Tyrannosaurus is quite good in this respect, as it goes into detail about both posture and feathering. On the other hand, some features shown in the movies are completely made up, and was never historically theorised, such as the frill and venom of Dilophosaurus. The teeth in Pteranodon are also hard to understand, since the name meand toothless wing... FunkMonk (talk) 21:05, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
I think I'll try to get Baryonyx to GA/FA next (after I'm done with Columbian mammoth), everyone is free to edit along, of course. FunkMonk (talk) 04:39, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
"The teeth in Pteranodon are also hard to understand, since the name meand toothless wing..." Unless we remember that the aviary scene in the novel used Cearadactylus, which did have teeth, and not Pteranodon (which was probably swapped in because of it's popularity). The Pteranodon figures in both of the Kenner lines for Jurassic Park and The Lost World: Jurassic Park lacked teeth like the actual animal, as did the Pteranodon seen at the end of the second movie. It's only in the third movie (which took the other novel scenes) that the JP Pteranodon had teeth. :p Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 13:54, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Pteranodon seems to be in the new movie as well... With teeth, I'd imagine. FunkMonk (talk) 14:17, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Didn't get as far with this as planned (though Apatosaurus and Ankylosaurus are almost there, and I'll do Baryonyx next), but it made me think (with no regard to JP)that we should maybe focus on improving a representative/well-known genus from each major group , to act as future template for other genera. Until now, for example, we had no featured ankylosaurs, and I think oviratorosaurs, pachycephalosaurs, therizinosaurs, heterodontosaurs, and non-hadrosaur ornithopods could need some representatives at FAC as well. FunkMonk (talk) 07:38, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Yah, might be a good idea. But which taxon to choose? I would be in for any thing if someone else wants to. IJReid discuss 21:40, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Having a bit of writing fatigue myself at the moment, but how are things going for Apatosaurus? After Baryonyx, I was thinking of maybe Oviraptor itself... FunkMonk (talk) 21:51, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Well, not much else is addable until more papers come baring info with the updated phylogeny. Anyway, I have to wait for LittleJerry to finish with the ankylosaurus FA before proceeding with apatosaurus. IJReid discuss 22:13, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
I would be interested to help out as well. What about starting a new official Dinosaur collaboration? I mean, that would be fun! As for Oviraptorosauria, I feel that Oviraptor itself might be difficult to get to FA as it is very poorly known. Much better known is the related Citipati. But that one is not that famous … --Jens Lallensack (talk) 22:29, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm all for reviving the collab. For oviraptorosauria why not work on Caudipteryx, probably the second best known member in pop culture and pretty well known scientifically. Btw Opisthocoelicaudia is now nominated for GA. IJReid discuss 23:21, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Unrelated, but some members might want to get there hands of a Taylor & Francis account, available through Wikipedia:Taylor & Francis. IJReid discuss 01:02, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
I think collaboration is a good idea, but now it is mainly done by two editors planning on their talk pages, could also be nice with some more centralised planning on the Wikiproject collaboration page. I've made a section on the collab talk page, perhaps we should continue there:[11] I made a list of potential FACs once (where I see both of you commented):[12] As for FAC articles about animals that are little known, it can be done, see for example Dromaeosauroides. It is actually more important that much has been published on the specimen (coverage), than how much/how many of the specimens are known, if little has been published about them. Citipati has the problem of the "Zamyn Khondt specimen", which may be split off to a distinct genus, so we would have to be careful when writing that it will be an easy split once it happens. FunkMonk (talk) 06:20, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, I see you are right, and today's featured article on the main page is actually very short. So I could even try getting Vulcanodon in shape for FA, as it already contains everything that exists. That's nice! --Jens Lallensack (talk) 18:28, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
Yup, as long as the article is "stable", and the literature is comprehensively covered, length is not an issue. FunkMonk (talk) 09:14, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Brontosaurus distinct species news:[edit]

This story is being widely reported, and is worth discussing. Should this result in any changes on Wikipedia? Currently Brontosaurus redirects to Apatosaurus --Harizotoh9 (talk) 12:52, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

It has always been considered a distinct species, it is just the old genus name that has been revived. The issue is being dealt with on the page. FunkMonk (talk) 12:57, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Proposed move of "Feathered dinosaur" to "Dinosaur integument"[edit]

Now that feathers are known to have been extremely widespread within Dinosauria feathered dinosaurs are no longer "special" enough to justify treating them separately. Consequently, I think that the the general contents of this article would be more appropriate as part of a broader article on dinosaur integument and maybe some of the more specific discussions of early feathers as part of an article on the evolution of feathers. Abyssal (talk) 19:56, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Whether or not they're merged, an article about integument could be interesting. Also similar to a page about dinosaur life appearance I had in mind, but which grew too gargantuan in scope for me to finish:[13] FunkMonk (talk) 20:36, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Your sandbox draft is really really really fucking cool. Abyssal (talk) 21:13, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Feel free to add to/change it if you want, I probably won't work on it until I've gotten Columbian mammoth to FA... I used this as a template:[14] FunkMonk (talk) 21:23, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Species or Genus titles?[edit]

Elsewhere on Wikipedia (example: Talk:Apatosaurus), the topic has recently come up regarding using genre or species as the titles of articles. In WP:DINO, we've traditionally always gone by the genus name. However, this can cause the complication that when species are lumped or split or moved between genera, at least two articles need to be teased apart and partially re-written. IN the Brontosaurus example, if we had had a separate article on Apatosaurus excelsus to begin with, it would have saved an awful lot of time and effort, simply changing one article's name instead of trying to pull one article apart bit by bit to create a new article. Additionally, articles going down to species level makes intuitive sense as species are "real" entities while genre, families, orders, etc. are simply categories and containers for species. As far as I can tell, almost all articles in other areas of zoology go down to species level. One argument for keeping WP:DINO to genus level is that genera are often used as shorthand for species when talking about dinosaurs (though this often causes its own problems), so genera almost function as "common names" for species. I'm not sure if this reason alone is strong enough to balance out the points I outlined above. In practice, there are so many monotypic dinosaur genera that this switch would require very little change to existing articles other than their title, and the few multi-species genera could be split apart on a case by case basis (see Edmontosaurus, Edmontosaurus annectens, and Edmontosaurus regalis for an example of how this could look). What does everything think? Status quo, or a change to bring our project more in line with the rest of the biology section? Dinoguy2 (talk) 15:18, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm open minded to your proposal but I have qualms. Let's say we have a well developed article on Exemplosaurus. This genus is known almost exclusively from the species Exemplosaurus typus. However, three other dubious and inconsequential species have been referred to it, E. minor, E. stultus, and E. tertius. So we create an article on E. typus that is almost exactly the same as the article on the genus itself, minus 6-9 sentences about the referred species. Then we create three tiny perma-stubs each about 2-3 sentences long. But then we need an article summarizing the genus as a whole since there are multiple species to talk about, so we keep the original article the same. What have we really gained? The benefit to effort ratio seems very low to me. The only real benefit that I see in that situation is that reader who specifically search for a minor species won't have to skim the whole article on the genus to find what they want. It's unlikely that any of the nearly forgotten dubious species will ever be at risk of reclassification for easy renaming to be a potential perk.
And many genera will be like this. Think about Triceratops for a real example. Only one, maybe two "real" species, over a dozen dubious probable synonyms no one cares about. It wouldn't make sense not to have an article on the genus overall, but if we did, how many readers would bother to visit T. horridus, and if they did would they learn anything they didn't at the article on the genus itself given that the two are functionally if not actually synonymous? Another related hypothetical example: Exemplosaurus is known only from the species E. typus. We have an article titled Exemplosaurus typus. Then paleontologists describe E. secundus. We create an article on that species, but now since we have multiple species we need an article on Exemplosaurus overall. Readers now arrive at the article on the genus since that's all the average one is familiar with and traffic to the articles on the species immediately slows to a trickle.Those that do visit them don't actually learn anything new because the article on the genus covered all the bases fairly well.
Completely irrelevant tangent: you keep referring to "genera" as "genre", is that how you pronounce it in your head? That's how I pronounced it until I got to college and heard a professor pronounce it literally like it was spelled. I would be elated to know that I wasn't the only one doing that. Abyssal (talk) 01:57, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
I think we'd need to make an exception for nomina dubia, and keep those restricted to the genus-level article, though I don't necessarily see why making them "perm stubs" is a problem per se. This is true for plenty of genera in the current system ("genre" above is due to my persistently unscientific auto-correct ;) ). Dinoguy2 (talk) 10:45, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
When it comes to title, I don't see why monotypic genera cold not use the full binomial, and we could avoid the "Gastonia (dinosaur)"-type titles. But as I mentioned elsewhere about what to do with genera with multiple species, I think this should be taken on a case by case basis, with the default being to merge species into genus, and split being for when enough can/has been written about a species to split it off (as the genus article grows too long and unwieldy, eg. Edmontosaurus). As Abyssal says, I think the species sub articles (like Triceratops prorsus or Stegosaurus ungulatus) will just be little-visited orphans that will give us all extra work to maintain and keep track of (and we seem to be rather undermanned as is). Most readers visit the genus articles anyway (regular readers will only know the binomial of T. rex, which is in a monotypic genus anyway), so there is little benefit from the extra work (though I can understand the personal satisfaction of completists when having everything represented, but Wikipedia is not for a specialist audience). Every time something new is discovered about some species, we would have to add it to both the species article and in summarised form on the genus article... Then imagine when some feature is found to apply to all species in a genus... Don't know who here would have the time to do that. In short, in a perfect world I'd be all for species articles, but I don't think it will be realistic for us to maintain them and keep the general quality up, unless the project membership grows substantially. FunkMonk (talk) 16:16, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree with most of this, though i'd mention that we kind of already have tons of duplicate material. This is a bit of a more general issue - every sauropod article, for example, mentions that such and such species is a quadrupedal herbivore, a description that applies to the entirety of Sauropoda. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but then we also have articles that go into detail about their locomotion and biomechanics seemingly just to mine potential FA material that should really be discussed in depth at either every single species it applies to (massive duplication) or restricted to the most inclusive clade article it applies to (making it difficult to find without using a "Main article: x") template header. Dinoguy2 (talk) 16:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Yeah me too - keep at genus. Duplicate material is an issue everywhere and is about adding enough to to give context yet not too much to be overly repetitive..... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:58, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm somewhat more of a lumper than a splitter, and think that in most cases the existing scheme works just fine for paleo articles: a genus article to provide complete context for the one or more species within it. I think for especially speciose taxa, a concise list such as Species of Psittacosaurus is appropriate, again to allow the commonalities and differences of all species to more easily be appreciated without clicking between a dozen different articles. I also think it would preemptively stem the splitting and sub-splitting of subjects lest we end up with a glut of individual specimen articles like ZT 299 (Lufengpithecus). Truth be told there are hundreds of living species stubs I'd like to merge into decent genus articles, but that would probably cause more drama than its worth. One scenario I might argue a binomial title would be preferable to a genus title would be in the cases of monotypic genera where a homonym exists at the genus name: thus Anzu wyliei might be preferable to Anzu (dinosaur). Yes we have WP:MONOTYPICFAUNA, but we also have WP:NATDAB, and Natural disambiguation might be stylistically preferable than parenthetical in these handful of cases. --Animalparty-- (talk) 22:52, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Unless there are objections to moving monospecific "genus (dinosaur)" pages to "binomial", I will begin moving some. IJReid discuss 14:48, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
I think it's a bit premature, most who commented here talked about the genus issue, we should probably discuss titles separately first. FunkMonk (talk) 15:37, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree, a separate discussion should be held on this before changing titles. I qualified my comments above with might, and there is no consensus yet. I decline to open this discussion for the time being. --Animalparty-- (talk) 17:54, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
One overlooked problem is that it is not just the X (dinosaur) articles that should be moved, but those of every single monotypic dinosaur genus (which are in the hundreds, not counting prehistoric non-dinosaurs), otherwise it would just be inconsistent. And if that was done, some people might want to ask why for example Triceratops does not use a full binomial in the title, then we'd have to explain that it's because it isn't monotypic, and it would still look less standardised than it does now. So I'm actually a bit unsure... FunkMonk (talk) 18:24, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
I don't think inconsistency is that big of a deal if we decide to go through with this. Wikipedia has limitations intrinsic to its nature and one of those is a shortage of manpower and difficulty making big changes instantaneously. We should think long term and make decisions based on quality. The real question is, would this proposal make Wikipedia a better information source? My tentative answer would be "a little". So the idea of a gradual transition doesn't bother me as long as it's agreed that the changes are beneficial in the first place. Abyssal (talk) 03:17, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
I think it'd look far more pleasing to have bionomals than disambigs, if only because it both makes linking a bit easier and that it means articles don't get bogged down by the omnipresent "(dinosaur)" or "(pterosaur)" disambigs. So instead of seeing, say, "Dilong (dinosaur)", we'd see "Dilong paradoxus". That'd work much better, IMO. For genera that are polyspecific, something like "Triceratops (genus)" would work decently. Raptormimus456 (talk) 13:21, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
What is the point of a title Like "Triceratops (genus)"? FunkMonk (talk) 17:40, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
It's more a specific example than anything. :p If we do go with that system, I suppose it would depend on the genus in question. Stuff like Dilong, Balaur and the like would be the ones getting the bionomal disambig. Raptormimus456 (talk) 17:55, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
But there is no competition for just "Triceratops". There is no need to disambiguate. FunkMonk (talk) 21:57, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
WP:FLORA now recommends using the binomial for natural disambiguation when a monotypic genus is ambiguous, and several of us plant editors have been moving these articles to binomial. Yes, consistency takes a hit, but naturalness is improved. My impression from some archived talk is that the preference for using genus rather than binomial as the title for monotypic taxa (as expressed at WP:TOL and WP:NCFAUNA) was driven in a large part by folks work on palaeontological taxa (where there was already a preference for covering species in the genus article in many cases). I have no strong opinion about how to handle dinosaurs, but if you do decide to use the binomial for disambiguation, you won't be the first organismal project to do so.Plantdrew (talk) 19:58, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
BTW, here is a search for all dinosaur articles that have "(dinosaur)" as a parenthetical disambiguator. Plantdrew (talk) 20:16, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
I'll give it a shot with Dilong and see how it goes on from there. I'm expecting the move to be reverted, but I figure it's best to actually see what this would look like for these articles rather than debating without any evidence of what such a thing would look like. If the consensus is to keep the disambigs, I'm fine with the page being reverted to the disambig title. For now, let's just see how this looks. Raptormimus456 (talk) 12:40, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
And here's the result. Does this look better or worse than the disambig title? Raptormimus456 (talk) 12:44, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
I definitely prefer the binomial over a parenthetical disambiguator. Abyssal (talk) 19:49, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Also, I've moved Balaur from "Balaur (dinosaur)" to "Balaur bondoc", as well. Raptormimus456 20:55, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Can we categorize dinosaurs by epoch?[edit]

Can we finally split the dinosaurs by period categories into different epochs? Category:Cretaceous dinosaurs has almost 800 articles in it FFS. Abyssal (talk) 16:03, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Is that going far enough? The Cretaceous has only two epochs... We'd have a category for Late Cretaceous with about ~600 articles ;) Dinoguy2 (talk) 18:29, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Probably not, but it would be a start. :P Abyssal (talk) 18:50, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Sure, sounds good to me to help teach readers. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:09, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Hey chicken lovers[edit]

Maybe one of you can have a look at the contributions of Maddencarnotaurusramhead (talk · contribs) to see if they're up to no good or not. I blocked them for being incommunicado and they haven't responded, suggesting it was just trolling. Muchas gracias, Drmies (talk) 17:29, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

List of genera[edit]

Someone has recently added Regaliceratops, Titanoboa, Indomimus and Diabolus. I've removed Titanoboa. Should Indomimus and Diabolus also go. Lavateraguy (talk) 12:43, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but Regaliceratops is real. FunkMonk (talk) 03:33, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Articles for review[edit]

I just made a new section on the dinosaur front page, inspired by one they have at the bird project, where articles currently under or considered for various kinds of review are listed to notify project members: FunkMonk (talk) 09:56, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Seems fine. Maybe we should add Apatosaurus on there, or not yet. IJReid discuss 15:03, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
If plans are for it to be nominated again soon, why not, you can describe the situation in parenthesis or after a dash line. FunkMonk (talk) 15:07, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

I took the liberty of signing WikiProject Dinosaurs and WikiProject Palaeontology up for the automated Article Alerts report which track articles under review. Reports will be at Wikipedia:WikiProject Dinosaurs/Article alerts and Wikipedia:WikiProject Palaeontology/Article alerts; note that these will be redlinks for the next 24 hours or so until the bot makes its next run (and they may be blue links to a blank page for some days if no articles are under review). I'll see about transcluding the results of the report on the project page once the first report is generated (and you can watchlist the report to keep abreast of its results). For an example of the Article Alert report in action, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Plants/Article alerts. Plantdrew (talk) 16:59, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Nice! Should definitely be on the front page as well. FunkMonk (talk) 17:07, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
I've added it to the front page. I wasn't quite sure where to put it; it's below your Article for review section for now, but feel free to put it somewhere else. Plantdrew (talk) 16:46, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, moved it a bit up. Such a section should probably be listed on all project pages... Is there one at the bird project? FunkMonk (talk) 16:57, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Copyright Violation Detection - EranBot Project[edit]

A new copy-paste detection bot is now in general use on English Wikipedia. Come check it out at the EranBot reporting page. This bot utilizes the Turnitin software (ithenticate), unlike User:CorenSearchBot that relies on a web search API from Yahoo. It checks individual edits rather than just new articles. Please take 15 seconds to visit the EranBot reporting page and check a few of the flagged concerns. Comments welcome regarding potential improvements. These likely copyright violations can be searched by WikiProject categories. Use "control-f" to jump to your area of interest.--Lucas559 (talk) 22:47, 25 June 2015 (UTC)


Hi all! We could use some expert Dino help with this newly created article: Wendiceratops. Any help you can offer is appreciated! Thanks, Garchy (talk) 19:17, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Seems it mainly needs a taxobox now. Can't figure out those automatic ones, though... FunkMonk (talk) 19:36, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for your help! Looks much better. Garchy (talk) 19:58, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

The Scientific American Book of Dinoaurs[edit]

Hi all, does somebody have the book "The Scientific American Book of Dinoaurs" edited by Greg Paul, and can verify this passage which was inserted by a IP into the Amargasaurus article some time ago based on p. 94 in the book?

"Gregory Paul argued that parallel neck sails would have reduced neck flexion. Instead, he proposed that, with their circular rather than flat cross-sections, these spines were more likely covered with a horny sheath. He even suggests that they could have been clattered together for a sound display."

Paul, Gregory S. (2000) The Scientific American Book of Dinosaurs, p 94. St. Martin's Press. ISBN 0312262264.

As Greg Paul is only the editor of the book, we need to know the author and title of the chapter to cite it correctly. Any additional information on Amargasaurus that might be inside there could be valuable as well. Thanks a lot, --Jens Lallensack (talk) 08:32, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Yep, here's what he says (chapter is "Restoring the Life Appearance of Dinosaurs", written by Paul) if you want to rewrite: "The spectacularly long double spines of the neck and anterior trunk vertebrae of Amargasaurus have been restored as supporting dorsal fins, but parallel skin sails would have interfered with flexion of the neck, and the spines are not flattened from side to side. The circular cross-sectioned, sharp-tipped spines were probably spikes lengthened by horn coverings. These could have been used for display, to protect the neck and for combat by curling the neck ventrally and pointing the front spikes forward. Amargasaurus may have generated a sound display by clattering the spikes against one another!" FunkMonk (talk) 08:44, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
Great, thank you FunkMonk! --Jens Lallensack (talk) 08:59, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Opisthocoelicaudia[edit] looking good. Are the main GA-improvers gonna chuck it in the snake pit now? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:59, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

I think Jens Lallensack is waiting for a book to arrive first... Perhaps we can find it for him? FunkMonk (talk) 01:12, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
I don't know. I was co-nominator for GA, but Jens has mentioned that he wanted to nominate it for FA himself, so I'm not sure what we can do but wait. IJReid discuss 04:44, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
You can have co-noms at FAC, and it is good as it allows a person to have more than one nomination up at a time. Also makes process alot easier as the two (or more) of you can address concerns alot more quickly. If he's waiting for a book, see what is next nearest to buff..... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:58, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
Ah see, this is where a collaboration is good - figuring out who wants to work on what.....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:04, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Proposal at WP:Paleo[edit]

I've made a significant proposal relevant to this Wikiproject at the WP:Paleo talk page. Abyssal (talk) 01:44, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Requesting a rating reassessment for Zhenyuanlong[edit]

The Zhenyuanlong article was given a C-class rating by User:Maias while the article was in the process of being improved. Since then, I've added pretty much every nugget of information that exists on this dinosaur in reputable sources, have added two custom illustrations, have formatted a phylogenetic tree, and so on. I maintain that this article is pretty strong for the limited information on the taxon that exists at this point, so I think a quality reassessment is in order. Many thanks. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 23:05, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I think you can go ahead and change it, those assessments are done pretty arbitrarily by whoever drops by and feels like it (unlike "peer reviewed" FA and GA articles). And great work, by the way! FunkMonk (talk) 23:51, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! Do you have any sense of how much more work would theoretically need to be done to this article to get it up to GA? (Is GA even possible for an article with this little primary resource behind it?) -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 00:05, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
I think the main problem would be coverage, yes. But maybe you can find some more articles that cover the circumstances around this find (I see there are already some there), which are not just press releases that repeat each other? I do think this could circumvent problems at GA, but at FA, more secondary scientific coverage would be needed. As probably the most experienced (with promotion processes) member of this project, Casliber may have something to say. Oh, and by the way, the main citation should be consistent with the others in how you name the authors (last names first, no "and"). FunkMonk (talk) 00:52, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll change that. It would be nice to get the article up to GA, but in the meantime, I don't think it would be good etiquette for me to assign it a new rating, given that I'm the one who wrote most of the article and am asking for reassessment. ;) -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 01:37, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Right, have listed it as a morale-boosting B class article. I think you should nominate it at WP:GAN. Consider that once there, that acts as a "stable version" of sorts to compare against in case of future vandalism etc. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:37, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Many thanks for the reassessment--I'll bring it to WP:GAN soon. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 19:38, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Opisthocoelicaudia IPA[edit]

Hi all, in the Opisthocoelicaudia FAC it was pointed out that the IPA of that article is wrong. I was unable to fix it, as I do not know much about IPA. Any help would be appreciated! Here is what it should sound like: [15]. Thanks, --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:48, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

  • Kwamikagami often fixes IPA, or used to do, perhaps he has something to say. And by the way, a good copyedit would probably fix most of the problems the first reviewer has brought up, they often note redundancies and such (I rarely nominate without a copyedit)... FunkMonk (talk) 14:28, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
The 2nd pronunciation at the link is an odd mix of faux Latin (to be consistent with the "cow-dia", the coeli in the middle would be "coily" rather than "silly"), but the 1st is exactly what I'd expect for a Latinate word in English. So I transcribed that and added it as a ref. YouTube doesn't qualify as a ref, but it's really there for readers who don't know IPA. — kwami (talk) 17:54, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
Thank you, kwami, for the quick help! @FunkMonk: You are right, next time I'll request a copy edit first. Now it is a bit of work, but I should be able to fix everything soon. Do you prefer listing articles in the Peer Review or in the Guild of copy editors? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 18:42, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, thanks for the quick response, Kwamikagami. I never list for peer review, GA is sufficient for that I think, but copyedit is good, because even if one writes perfect English, it can always be improved in a more "literary" way. I write pretty good for a non-native, for example, but my writing is a bit "dry". Copyditors often add a bit of flavour that makes the flow better and more pleasant to read. FunkMonk (talk) 23:21, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Standardizing our disambiguation policy for genera[edit]

This is important, of course. As a group, I feel I should ask this question so that we can have consensus on how to work with genera that have synonymous articles on this site. In those instances, I've seen the use of the paranthetical disambig which, while a decent solution, doesn't flow very well. I've been bold and tested my idea for disambigs, and the response has, so far, been positive.

It is thus why I am making this proposal of switching our disambig policy to such, with potential additions as we debate untill consensus is reached;

  • In the case where the name a genus has already has an article/articles on Wikipedia, full bionomals may be used in place of paranthetical disambiguations, with parantheticals as redirects. This not only makes it easier to link to these pages, but also makes the page title look more proffessional.
    • EX: Balaur bondoc instead of "Balaur (dinosaur)", which is a redirect, and Dilong paradoxus instead of "Dilong (dinosaur)", which is a redirect.
  • In the case where a genus is not monospecific, the article retains it's paranthetical unless voted upon by the majority for the paranthetical to be changed, similarly to a move dispute. This is so that consensus is maintained and thus reducing any potential edit warring over page titles.

What do you guys think of this? Are there any additions you'd like to make, any changes, or is it fine as is? Raptormimus456 (talk) 15:07, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I think it is fine as is. IJReid discuss 01:58, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
  • MWAk brought up a problem with the binomial titles during a similar discussion, for example, there is apparently a "Balaur sp.", therefore B. bondoc is not the only species in the genus. Which makes the scope of the current article name too narrow. The (dinosaur) titles circumvent such problems. You never know when another species is added to a genus, and we would have to rename such articles every time it happens. Furthermore, the parenthesis disambiguation titles are standard across all other types of Wikipedia animal articles that use scientific names, for example Megalodon (genus). It also just looks weird that some articles about mono-specific genera use binomials while others don't. It is a wider problem that does not just affect dinosaur articles, so we would need a consensus at a higher level, probably tree of life project. It is arbitrary to have different standards just for dinosaurs. FunkMonk (talk) 03:51, 12 September 2015 (UTC)