Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Davide Lo Surdo

Davide Lo Surdo

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I don't think this person meets any of the criteria in the guidelines about notability for musicians. This article has been subject to a staggering amount of promotional editing by single-purpose accounts and IP editors both here and on other wikis (example). Once the promotion is removed, I'm afraid there's really not much left except "This guy is a guitarist and some national offshoot of a respected magazine says he's the fastest in the world" ... and I can't find much else that doesn't feed off that, besides trivial tour coverage. Nothing in the international Rolling Stone, nothing (let alone anything significant) in Guitar Player, etc.) The article needs some TNT, at the least. Graham87 16:08, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Italy. Shellwood (talk) 16:19, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Just not seeing enough to meet the referenced criteria. No significant international coverage, album charting, etc.Intothat darkness 19:40, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Having international coverage isn't important; having national coverage is (otherwise we would delete numerous British by-election articles that get barely passing mentions elsewhere) and being mentioned multiple times in Rolling Stone seems to indicate the article can be further improved. We don't require sources to be in English. The version I passed at AfC seems to be okay as a basic, well-sourced biography. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 12:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes we don't require sources in English, but extraordinary claims (like the one that underpins this article) require extraordinary evidence and I'm just not finding any in the usual places. I'd also expect to find more in-depth sources in English if he was as world-renowned as the article says he is, just because English is such a widely used language around the world and there are many high-quality music publications in English. Also Rolling Stone Brazil isn't quite the same thing as Rolling Stone ... and he's Italian, not Brazilian. Graham87 16:05, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- To put it another way: If this was an article about, say, an Italian singer whose work was ranked highly in only the Italian charts, I'd have no problem with the page's existence and I'd expect most of the good sources about the subject to be in Italian. But that's not what we have in this case, and something just seems ... off here, with all the highly promotional references that seem to be in a feedback loop. The logs for this page on the Italian Wikipedia are telling. I think I've probably said enough now. Graham87 16:53, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  hello, i fixed the page cleaning up and fixing some stuff.
  
  i removed the description from el mercurio as living legend, fixed the music history book news in career, so now the page looks more neutral 91.80.1.71 (talk) 00:23, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Passing AFC just means it passed AFC (which is no dig at them...they do important work). It doesn't automatically mean the sources are good or fully sufficient. I remain concerned by both the apparent promotional editing and the haphazard sourcing. And if "fastest guitarist ever" is a thing, we'd have articles on every guitarist Mike Varney ever signed (since he routinely made the same claim about them). Intothat darkness 12:11, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, that's why in the article it's written "Rolling Stone described him as the fastest guitarist in the history of music". it's a description from Rolling Stone Brasil, only this so. it's totally fine. The article claims that RS Brasil described him like this. I suggest to add Brasil in the context of the phrase. Johnmarrys (talk) 12:22, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have also just fixed the Sanremo Award with the wikilink and the source from RS Brazil Johnmarrys (talk) 13:30, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I for one don't entirely trust the Rolling Stone Brazil article, based largely on the Google translation (but I can read a bit of Portuguese via my limited Italian). It doesn't have a byline, it mostly expresses his own point of view, and there's nothing there to make me think it's independent enough of the subject to really count here. Again I question whether there has been a conflict of interest involved in the creation and editing of this Wikipedia article and even the Rolling Stone Brazill article. (Adendum: even the international version of Rolling Stone magazine is not always beyond reproach on Wikipedia; see its various entries on the perennial sources page). Graham87 15:13, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That and given the people he's purported to have played with (Vai, Loomis, and others) I would expect to see far more coverage. Blabbermouth and other outlets at least. So I remain skeptical about real notability. Intothat darkness 00:35, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Enough stuff for a Wikipedia page. Big coverage on Rolling Stone Brasil. Coverage also on Los Tiempos, El Mercurio (Ecuador), DBC News, The Free Press Journal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnmarrys (talk • contribs) 12:21, 4 July 2023 (UTC) — Johnmarrys (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Keep now the page looks better. before it was a lot of evident spam but i cleaned up and improved the page. The page only needed some work.91.80.1.71 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.80.1.71 (talk) 00:49, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Note that other IP addresses in this range have contributed to this article in the past. I'm concerned that editors to the page have a conflict of interest or there may be undisclosed paid editing going on. Editors in this situation regarding Davide Lo Surdo's article should refrain from editing it. Graham87 02:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep "Fastest guitarist" is certainly a notable accolade, and he appears to have the coverage. 129 notes per second seems extremely hard to believe though, even though his speed is insane. Here he is as a kid with Steve Vai [1], he seems to have been regarded as a sort of child prodigy.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:21, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Indeed re the speed ... I've looked into this a bit and Guinness World Records no longer accepts applications like that. The latest such record I can find is about 41 notes per minute in 2012 but the record-breaker doesn't appear to have an article here (not that that's an appropriate argument). We can agree to disagree about the coverage though. Graham87 17:30, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  40 notes per second it says. Yeah that seems about right as what is possible as an extreme, 129 notes seems impossible to me speaking as an accomplished guitarist myself, it would mean each note would be executed faster than 0.01 of a second which is obvious utter nonsense. He is a freakishly fast though, he certainly has something really extraordinary with speed. He appears to have been awarded at a major Italian music ceremony for this though. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:39, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  I just did a test with a Jim Dunlop 0.38 pick (the thinnest), I would say I can do roughly 27 notes (with three sweeps with 9 notes) and 20 notes a second with fast chromatic legato. A second is nothing, 129 notes I just don't think that is physically possible!! Even 40 is pretty insane. It would be a notable accolade, if it was certified by Guinness, which it hasn't been though. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  Wow! It says 40 notes per second for the old record, but 620 beats per minute for the new one; that works out to 2,480 notes in a minute (at four semiquavers per beat), giving about 41-and-a-third notes per second, give or take. The Rolling Stone Brazil source said that just about any distinct noise was counted as a note so ... I dunno. I'm as useful at playing a guitar as a goldfish so I'll defer to your expertise here. Graham87 18:04, 5 July 2023 (UTC) [reply]
  Yup, that's very dubious. The fastest jazz tunes are typically around 340 beats per minute, it's the guitar equivalent of racing a Lamborghini at top speed, the tank will run out quickly! This is 330 bpm for instance. We're talking nearly twice that speed. Sorry to go off on a tangent from commenting on the notability and sources, but it's relevant and quite interesting given that his claim to notability is how fast he can play. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:40, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The article seems to have enough coverage to be included on Wikipedia.Enrico Manni (talk) 00:58, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]