Talk:Hickory Wind

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references

I've added references, and so am removing the 'references' tag. BuffaloSpringfield 13:34, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

stub tag

I've removed the stub tag, after reviewing WP:stub guidelines and be bold policy BuffaloSpringfield 21:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

disputed authorship

The actual author of Hickory Wind seems likely to be Sylvia Sammons, a blind singer-songwriter who began singing it in the early Sixties, and certainly by 1963, when Parsons visited the city. The second verse added by Bob Buchanan was not written by Parsons, so the original deception was probably that of Parsons alone. It may have been a honest mistake at first, since his various addictions made him an unstable witness, but it's also true that he claimed or hinted at co-authorship of at least one song, Honky Tonk Women, which was vigorously disputed by Mick Jagger and Keith Richards. In any event, the copyright was purchased from Sammons and credit assigned by fiat, if not in fact. Among folk musicians of that era and area, Sammons is widely known to be the true author. You can find the dispute in many places on the web, but the most detailed seems to be at [Folklinks], Crediting Hickory Wind, written by David W. Johnson. -- Lee-Anne 18:26, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Should the above be included in some way into the article?Airproofing (talk) 18:47, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above source doesn't qualify as WP:RS, so unless there's a better source for those claims they shouldn't be included in the article. Adam McMaster (talk) 12:03, 31 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see the authorship controversy has been added using the above links. Please discuss here. Thanks. Airproofing (talk) 22:58, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I was the user who added the "Authorship controversy" section. I must say that my own feeling is that the song was almost certainly written by Parsons and Buchanan. The lack of any physical or musical proof to support Sammons' claim as well as the scarcity of anyone who can corroborate her story (I think only two of her friends have come forward thus far), leads me to suspect that it's untrue. Plus, to me at least, Buchanan's detailed account of exactly how the song was written has the ring of truth to it. However, I felt that in the interest of an unbiased article, this authorship dispute should be mentioned, since it's an important issue and one that is being increasingly discussed amongst fans of Gram Parsons and The Byrds. I must also disagree with Adam McMaster's claim that the Folklinks source doesn't qualify as WP:RS. Folklinks is a well respected and reliable, third-party, publisher of roots music related articles and as such, I think it’s fine for Wikipedia purposes. Kohoutek1138 01:23, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

this is clearly the work of gram parsons, who ever authored the writing controversy has a vendetta against parsons or listened to someone who lied. I don't know how a blind woman can write a song about climbing trees. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.108.232.72 (talk) 19:31, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sylvia Sammons became blind at the age of six due to glaucoma, so she has childhood memories of being sighted, possibly even climbing trees. [Video interview with Sylvia Sammons] As was pointed out in the Folklinks article, she was born in South Carolina, so her depiction of the events of her childhood is real, where Parsons has no ties to South Carolina whatsoever, so the imputation of faux memories of South Carolina would be pure fabulation. To me, the song is interesting too, in that there is no visual imagery involved, but only feeling and odors. On a purely emotional level, it sounds to me like a song a woman might sing to her lover, and not at all a typical man's song, because it shows a vulnerability and position of social inferiority. How many men sing about an older woman as a lover? As a Parsons song, it's remarkably distinct from the rest of his oeuvre. And then there are the other accusations of his claiming more credit than was due. Lee-Anne (talk) 06:25, 3 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One small but factual point: in the main entry, the use of the word "refuted" in describing the claims of Buchanan and Parsons should be "rebutted," since the meaning of "refuted" is to PROVE an argument wrong...; they mainly assert their view, not prove hers wrong.... Stephen Lee, Grand Forks, ND  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.174.58.20 (talk) 02:56, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This section is filled with WP:SYNTH. The paragraph beginning with "Calling her claim further into doubt..." talks of "a woman with the same name, Sylvia Sammons" with no evidence this is the same Sammons. It is WP:OR to claim this is evidence of anything without a reference saying it is the same person. There is further original research in using that article to extrapolate what her age "must have been" and therefore deciding that it is proof of anything at all. I have removed it but the editor who added it, @Eldanger25:, keeps readding it. References must explicitly state what is being claimed in the article and this reference does not do that. ThaddeusSholto (talk) 12:22, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello - I am confused by your reasoning and will explain mine (and restore the edit with some clarifications in an effort to address your concerns): the so-called "authorship controversy" arose in 2002, roughly 35 years after the song was released, 30 years after Mr. Parsons's death, and nearly 40 years after the alleged act of song plagiarism.

The claim in this section, in essence, is that a blind female professional folk singer named Sylvia Sammons from South Carolina wrote the song circa 1963, and Mr. Parsons heard a live performance around the same time and, after waiting 4-5 years and making several recordings in the interim, recorded and published the song under his own name (and the name of a co-writer).

The article in question that you have been removing is from 1993 - 25 years after the song's release, and 10 years before Ms. Sammons's claims were made. The article is a profile of a woman with the same name, Sylvia Sammons, the same disability, blindness, and the same occupation, professional (or aspiring professional) folk singer. In the 1993 article, Ms. Sammons provides a different age and hometown than she claimed in 2002, and in particular provided a different professional history - she states she was a folk musician since roughly 1980, a dozen years after the song was published, than she provided 10 years later in claiming she was an adult and a live performer circa 1963, as part of the "authorship controversy."

You state that there must be a reference in the article stating "it is the same person." That seems to be an arbitrary rule in the context of an alleged controversy that arose decades after the events in question. If Ms. Sammons wished to claim authorship of a song written in the 1960s circa 2002, and if excerpts of interviews she gave circa 2002 are included, then contradictory comments credibly made by her in a published article 10 years earlier is and should be relevant.

I can certainly understand an effort to amend the paragraph if you think there is original research, but deleting the paragraph and reference entirely on the grounds that the author did not identify the subject as the source of a controversy that (1) did not occur for another decade, and (2) was related to a work of art published several decades prior, seems like overkill. Eldanger25 (talk) 15:00, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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