Talk:Coup of Gitarama

Coup of Gitarama has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 14, 2022	Good article nominee	Listed

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Coup of Gitarama/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mujinga (talk · contribs) 09:46, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Overview

I'll take this on as part of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/GAN Backlog Drives/January 2022. Mujinga (talk) 09:46, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I've left some comments below and will put the article review on hold Mujinga (talk) 11:48, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

this is a very well-written article, i normally have much more comments on prose. also it's interesting to read that the belgian empire was (at least in part) responsible for the later hutu/tutsi issues. the article is stable and neutral, no original research. pix are properly licensed and relevant. earwig gives no copyvio worries. just a few queries below Mujinga (talk) 10:16, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Harroy and the Resident Belgian in Ruanda, André Preud'homme, denied the request." what does Resident Belgian mean?
- Revised and linked to List of colonial residents of Rwanda.

"and initiated a full intervention. Led by Colonel Guy Logiest, the intervention" - two interventions, suggest replace one of them
- Revised, replaced second instance with "Belgian forces"

the coup section could discuss the actual coup a bit more - when exactly was it declared, when did it become known as the Gitarama coup, when was monarchy actually abolished, what did the mwami say etc etc
- surely the monarchy wasn't actually abolished until the 1961 Rwandan monarchy referendum in september?
  - To respond to both these points: The coup happened on 28 January 1961, as the article states. Nothing suggests otherwise. The relevant information I've found is what you see. No secondary or tertiary sources state when "Gitarama coup" or "coup of Gitarama" was coined. As for the abolition of the monarchy, the article states that referendum was held on 25 September 1961 and the population voted for said abolition. Before that it notes While the question of the monarchy had yet to be decided via the referendum, Rwanda operated as a de facto republic. The monarchy as a viable institution was gone with the coup; the referendum was simply the population's stamp of approval of the key result of the coup. As for Kigeli's reaction, I've looked and sadly the sources do not indicate what he thought of the affair.
    - thanks for adding the date to the lead Mujinga (talk) 15:05, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

By 7:00 PM a 10-member cabinet - 07:00 pm per MOS:AMPM
- Fixed.

lead seems a bit over long to me, happy to hear your rationale. per MOS:LEADLENGTH 2 or 3 paragrpahs would be fine, here we have 4.
- - I could try to trim it down, but since such events in Rwandan history retain some controveriality today I though it was best to explain the event with more context rather than less.
    - not 100% persuaded by that, but a lead of 600 words for an article of over 3000 words is i suppose ok Mujinga (talk) 15:05, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- "coup of Gitarama (French: coup d'etat de Gitarama) was a 1961 event" can give date
  - Done.
  - on on reflection, is the coup a long process that took place through 1961 beginning in january? would be good to have clarity on that, for me it's not clear
- "was abolished and replaced with a republican political system" as above not sure if that happened in january already
  - @Mujinga:Responding to the two points above, I think you're referring to the scheduled legislative elections and plan for a provisional government? This did not mean replacing the monarchy; this would've entailed the establishment of a parliamentary system, something which coexists with many monarchies such as the UK (constitutional monarchies). A good example to consider is Burundi, which became independent in 1962 from Belgium officially as the Kingdom of Burundi but with an elected assembly and a prime minister. The Belgians held elections there and set up a provisional government, but it did not replace the Mwami. See Constitution of the Kingdom of Burundi which details a system of government Rwanda probably would've been given if not for the revolution and coup of Gitarama (Burundi's monarchy was eventually abolished in 1966, ftr). By the way, the sources are very clear in referring to the events on 28 January as the coup, not things before, though they all form a part of the Rwandan Revolution. -Indy beetle (talk) 06:56, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]