Template talk:Citation needed

Template:Citation needed is permanently protected from editing because it is a heavily used or highly visible template. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by consensus, editors may use {{edit protected}} to notify an administrator to make the requested edit. Usually, any contributor may edit the template's documentation to add usage notes or categories.

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Inline Templates

This template is within the scope of WikiProject Inline Templates, a collaborative effort to improve and manage Wikipedia's inline footnote, cleanup and dispute templates. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
Some discussion of this template may take place at the project's talk page, rather than here.Inline TemplatesWikipedia:WikiProject Inline TemplatesTemplate:WikiProject Inline TemplatesInline Templates articles

Reliability

This template is part of WikiProject Reliability, a collaborative effort to improve the reliability of Wikipedia articles. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ReliabilityWikipedia:WikiProject ReliabilityTemplate:WikiProject ReliabilityReliability articles

This template was considered for deletion on 2006 July 1. The result of the discussion was "nomination withdrawn on procedural technicality (and discussion was overwhelmingly in favor of keep)".

This page has been mentioned by a media organization:

Kerry Howley (March 2008). "Artifact: The World Needs Citations". Reason Magazine.

This page has been cited as a source by a notable professional or academic publication:
Pinker, Steven, The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence has Declined (N.Y.: Viking, hardback [3d printing?] 2011 (ISBN 978-0-670-02295-3)), p. 113

Template:Inline cleanup tags

For some reason the {{Inline cleanup tags}} template does not display on the mobile version of Wikipedia. That list of inline templates is quite valuable when editing and, when it was "hard-coded" into the documentation, could be consulted easily. Any ideas how to get that navbox to appear regardless of one's device or wikiskin? Thanks! — Spike Toronto 22:47, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@SpikeToronto: It's not specific to Inline cleanup tags, it's because it's a navbox. Navboxes don't display on mobile, this is a controversial design feature that goes back years and apparently we're stuck with it. See phab:T124168. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:37, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Link problem?

Resolved

Under "when not to use" there is a link reading "list of inline templates" that goes nowhere when I click it. I spent many minutes looking for what I needed, and if this link had done what I expected, from its wording and context, I would have found my answers much more quickly. I assume some editors are thrown off a track of intended edits at the point at which I persisted, so if there's a fix to be done, I hope someone with the ability will do so. The page is locked for editing for me.

Specifically, I suggest that the link point to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Inline_Templates (and in particular to the List of Inline Templates subsection). Al Begamut (talk) 16:43, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That section was removed, but the in-page section link was left behind. I have adjusted the link. Thanks for the note. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:14, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Use with Template:More citations needed

Should this template be used in articles or sections already marked with the Template:More citations needed? 83.168.137.1 (talk) 22:24, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do, especially for specific claims in biographical articles. If a small section contains no references, I usually just put {{unreferenced section}} at the top of it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:13, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thanks 83.168.137.1 (talk) 15:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It can be, but it's not a requirement. When I'm reading an article that I think needs more citations, I'll tag individual statements if there's only a handful of them, use the template Jonesey referenced above if only a section or two have multiple issues, and use More citations needed if multiple sections have problems...calling out individual statements as well in such a case isn't the worst idea (especially if you feel there's statements that editors might try to defend as not requiring sourcing), but my view is that by calling out the article entire you've already called out any unsourced content within the article. DonIago (talk) 14:19, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thanks 83.168.137.1 (talk) 15:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could a numerical YYYY-MM date format be allowed as an alternative?

And also, could the date be used as an ordered first parameter in addition to being explicitly specified using the name "date"?

Something like Questionable factual claim.{{cn|2024-02}} is dramatically less visual clutter in markup source than Questionable factual claim.{{Citation needed|date=February 2024}}.

The way the template works currently, readers should be forgiven for thinking that the primary goal is to cause as much of an eyesore as possible to interrupt reading of both the text and the markup source. –jacobolus (t) 02:31, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jacobolus: Please give examples of other cleanup templates that operate in the way that you suggest, and if there are none, please show why this one should be different from all of the others. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It would be great if all of the inline superscript templates worked this way! All of the other similar templates also cause significant amounts of visual clutter to markup source, and anything that could be done to improve that would be awesome. I don't really care about top-of-section or top-of-article templates. Since those are not inserted in running text, they are much less of an impediment to reading even if they are unnecessarily verbose.

I'm bringing it up here because {{cn}} is the most common one and is found on a large proportion of Wikipedia articles, so fixing it would make the most significant improvement to Wikipedia authors' lives. But if you think there's a better venue for this type of suggestion, I'd be happy to also propose it elsewhere. –jacobolus (t) 09:16, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think I prefer the unambiguity of having the date spelled out to the potential ambiguity of just having it as numbers. Similarly, "citation needed" is plain English, while readers may not know what "cn" means. However, I don't feel strongly about this; if other editors believe a numerical format is a net improvement, I won't push back. DonIago (talk) 13:04, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That date format is ambiguous and is not allowed by MOS:DATESNO ("2001-07" is the ambiguous example given in the table). Many discussions and an RFC have taken place about it over the years. Citation needed templates are only clutter in the sense that they draw attention to the need for something to be fixed. When a citation is provided, the template (clutter) can be removed. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:02, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you explain what is ambiguous about it? MOS:DATESNO is about the use of dates in the text of wiki articles (including tables, citations, etc.), and doesn't say anything about non-rendering template parameters as far as I can tell. I strongly agree with it that "2001-07" would be an unacceptable format for article text. You are certainly right that the extreme ugliness in both markup and rendered output is a very strong incentive for wiki editors to never use (and remove ASAP with or without providing citations) the {{citation needed}} template. –jacobolus (t) 19:33, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Editors who remove CN tags without resolving the situation (unless a source isn't reasonably needed) are editing disruptively and should be told such. DonIago (talk) 20:15, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can tell people whatever you like. I'm just telling you what incentive was created. –jacobolus (t) 22:07, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That may be an incentive, but in practice I've rarely witnessed such a thing, even among bad-faith or apparently new editors. If you're trying to argue that as a reason for making this change, I'd like to see some recent examples. DonIago (talk) 01:06, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]