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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Foofy (talk | contribs) at 17:13, 17 June 2007. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Obama Girl

Obama Girl (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Non-notable meme. No references. I put a speedy tag on it, but it was removed. Corvus cornix 05:34, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I actually fixed a spelling error in that article while working on this, so I've read it pretty thoroughly. It is true, as the page states, that present news coverage does not necessarily constitute long-term notability, but the elections issue, and the nature of that coverage, would speak to at least some potential long-term importance. As those voting "keep for now" have rightly said, it is a current matter of much discussion, and has been noted by a variety of sources. This fits our criteria for inclusion. ◄Zahakiel► 16:16, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't put much stock in "keep for now" arguments; my reading of the relevant guidelines is that a topic has to have demonstrable long-term notability for an article to be created. If an article is kept as "notable for the moment", it's very difficult to get rid of it in the future, since folks will argue that notability is not temporary. Deor 17:52, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And it's not. The nature of the current coverage is already examining its potential influence on such long-term issues as a presidential election. This may be a "sudden" phenomenon, but it's not just some guy with a glowing broom handle dancing around the place either. ◄Zahakiel► 17:55, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete non-enduring web meme. -N 14:38, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - For the moment it is notable. Anyone remember "All your base are belong to us"? --Art8641 15:20, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete non-notable, brief Internet phenomena. Well, I guess it is noteable for the time-being, but it won't be remembered like All your base belong to us was. --Thekittybomb 16:50, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • You don't know that, do you? I'm not saying that it will be remembered, but none of us knows what the future holds. Less important phenomena have been known to persist for an ungodly long time. --Hnsampat 17:22, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep Persons asserting that "It will be very quickly forgotten" are very confident in their personal crystal ball. That is not a good basis for deletion of something that satisfies WP:A and WP:N. It has been the subject of lengthy independent stories in a number of newspapers (not just blogs) such as the Chicago Tribune [1], besides the ones already cited. That said, it should be judged by the "rejected" WP:MEME, a notability standard for internet memes. There seems to be some implicit standard for judging such memes, because Bus Uncle, a celphone video of an old guy raving in a pugnacious manner on a bus, was appareently never even nominated for deletion, and actually became a featured article. Bus Uncle got 1.7 million viewings on Youtube in 3 weeks, or 81,000 per day while Obama Girl received 777,000 viewings in 3 day, or 259,000 per day, over 3 times the viewing rate. I could see deleting it on the basis that per WP:NOT Wikipedia is not a newspaper, in keeping with the essay WP:NOTNEWS, which calls for deleting mere "water-cooler" stories. Edison 19:22, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly. And water cooler stories can only be determined to be such after the meme dies away. There's good reason to believe, beyond mere speculation, that as long as Obama is a viable candidate for the 2008 election, this video is going to keep coming up in discussion, if the current coverage is any indication at all. And of course, All your base was also a Featured Article in 2004... nobody expected it to be so enduring a web presence, and that wasn't even about a politician :) ◄Zahakiel► 19:41, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I'm not necessarily a fan of articles on web memes, but this one seems fairly significant since it is tied to a presidential campaign and has been heavily discussed in major media (which is somewhat surprising). This may be a flash-in-the-pan story, or it may be an enduring aspect of the 2008 campaign which warrants an article. Right now, there is simply no way to tell. I vote to keep for now and to close the AfD with a note that deletion could and should certainly be reconsidered if the meme dies down in the months ahead. I would also note that several of the first few votes seemed to be solely on the basis of lack of notability as established by reliable sources. Now that RS have been provided, I think these editors should reconsider (or simply re-justify) their votes/comments and if not these comments should be given less weight. It is now a substantially different article and "no reliable sources" is no longer a valid delete reason in my opinion.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 20:04, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Wikipedia is not a tabloid newspaper. There is no evidence of lasting encyclopedic notability here. MER-C 05:45, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep arguments of no lasting relevance seem a little absurd when talking about presidential candidates, their campaigns, and supporters--they give rise to books and everything related for decades and decades. Not news does not mean ignore everything that might be in a newspaper as well. DGG 07:07, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep About as weak as humanly possible. However campaign/campaign-related ads do sometimes become of lasting value. This one was mentioned in credible news sources. I think this is just a temporary fad, I despise the word/concept meme, but if by 2008 she becomes a major discussion point in the campaign we might look silly for the lack of foresight. (I don't think this will happen, but we can't be certain she will be forgotten either)--T. Anthony 07:45, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. It's making headlines. Will it be making them 10 years from now? Probably not, but it's made enough of a splash that if Obama Girl ever gets mentioned in conversation, the uninformed should be able to turn to WP for enlightenment. - Pharaonic 12:39, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. After I saw the video, Wikipedia was the first place I looked for additional information. How many candidates get sexy videos made for them? I think that alone makes it notable enough for a site like Wikipedia. Foofy 17:13, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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