Talk:Tarbosaurus

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Evidence from morphological characters that Tarbosaurus is not congeneric with Tyrannosaurus

Hurum and Sabath (2003) demonstrated Tarbosaurus is not a species of Tyrannosaurus. This was based on the skull of Tarbosaurus being more primitive than that of Tyrannosaurus. Currie, Hurum, and Sabath (2003) conducted a cladistic analysis of the family Tyrannosauridae, concluding that Tarbosaurus is closer to Alioramus than to Tyrannosaurus. The conclusion made by Hurum and Sabath (2003) is based on re-examinations of the skulls of Tarbosaurus and Tyrannosaurus.

Currie, P.J., Hurum, J.H., and Sabath, K. 2003. Skull structure and evolution in tyrannosaurid dinosaurs. Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 48 (2): 227–234.

Hurum, J. H. and Sabath, K. 2003. Giant theropod dinosaurs from Asia and North America: Skulls of Tarbosaurus bataar and Tyrannosaurus rex compared. Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 48 (2), 161-190

Did they show that T. bataar is closer to Alioramus than T. rex using cladistic analysis, or was this just a genericomertical exercise? If is was cladistic, what makes it superior to other analysis? John.Conway 16:02, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, just read the paper -- still, I'm not sure this is the final word on the subject, it is one analysis that disagrees with a bunch of other (and excludes post-cranial data). John.Conway 17:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is it confirmed that Tarbosaurus (Tyranowaurus) Battaar is a relative or even an ancestor of T,.Rex?

I need this info for my essay; plz someone help me —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Didigo10 (talk • contribs) 04:36, 1 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Review of Mongolian tyrannosaurs

Olshevsky (1995) recognizes three species of tyrannosaurids from Mongolia: Tarbosaurus efremovi Maleev, 1955, Jenghizkhan bataar (Maleev, 1955) (Gorgosaurus lancinator Maleev, 1955 is a junior synonym), and Maleevosaurus novojilovi (Maleev, 1955). The diagnosis for Jenghizkhan is given in Olshevsky (1995): The genus Jenghizkhan differs from other members of the paratribe Tarbosaurini in its larger size (overall adult length about 14 meters) and its massively constructed, rugose vertical skull elements, namely, the postorbital-jugal bar and lacrimal-jugal bar. In Tarbosaurus efremovi these vertical elements are relatively slender, with quite smooth external surfaces. In Jenghizkhan, the lacrimal and postorbital meet above the orbit to create a continuous circumorbital flange from approximately the middle of the vertical ramus of the lacrimal around to the suborbital tuberosity ("postorbital bar") on the vertical ramus of the postorbital. The frontal is thereby excluded from the orbital rim, although a notch may be present at the dorsal apex where the lacrimal rugosity contacts the postorbital rugosity. In Tarbosaurus efremovi and most other tyrannosaurids, the frontal remains part of the orbital rim as a well-defined notch or discontinuity in the circumorbital surface, separating the lacrimal from the postorbital. These characters are probably not age-related, since they are present in the holotype juvenile skull of Gorgosaurus lancinator.

Once a paper describing variation within Mongolian tyrannosaurids is published, Olshevsky's proposed classification may become accepted. But Olshevsky himself continues defending the validity of Jenghizkhan and Maleevosaurus from Tarbosaurus.

Maleev, E.A. 1955a. Giant carnivorous dinosaurs of Mongolia [in Russian]. Doklady Akademii Nauk SSSR 104: 634–637.

Maleev, E.A. 1955b. New carnivorous dinosaurs from the Upper Cretaceous of Mongolia [in Russian]. Doklady Akademii Nauk SSSR 104: 779–782.

Olshevsky, G. 1995. The origin and evolution of the tyrannosaurids [in Japanese]. Kyoryugaku Saizensen (Dino Frontline) 9: 92–119; 10: 75–99.

I'm not sure that anyone other than Olshevsky has accepted the name Jenghizkhan though. Cas Liber 01:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He doesn't even accept it any more. J. Spencer 01:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Relationship of Shanshanosaurus

Carr (2005) found Shanshanosaurus to be the sister taxon of a clade containing Tarbosaurus and Tyrannosaurus. This may mean that the taxonomic status of Shanshanosaurus needs reconsideration again (if postcranial remains are found at the type locality of Shanshanosaurus).

Carr, 2005. Phylogeny of Tyrannosauroidea (Dinosauria: Coelurosauria) with special reference to North American forms. Unpublished PhD dissertation. University of Toronto. 1170 pp.