Talk:List of one-club men in association football

"Famous for being at one club"

Shouldn't an article about "one-club men" stick to players who only played for one club?

Do you suggest a seperate article for 'players famous for being at one particular club?' Mark272 01:38, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Several players on the first list played for more than one club. Isn't "famous for being at a certain club" a matter of opinion? SteveO

The second heading is mostly about longevity at a particular club, so it should probably be changed to clarify. I suppose the first list needs re-doing. Mark272 17:09, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Second Section

I would argue about the inclusion of a number of players in the second section. The obvious one, and one I have now removed, is Dennis Bergkamp. I appreciate that he has been at Arsenal for a very long time, but the implication that he had not made his name until he joined the club is silly. He was a professional for some 10 years before joining the Gunners and won a total of three major European trophies before joining the club (compared with none since joining Arsenal). I remember him being a huge name when he played for Ajax and Inter (also worth mentioning that he spent 7 years at Ajax). Rje 00:05, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

I would propose to remove the second section entirely, it doesn't fit in with the subject of the article and, in some cases, is so subjective as to be useless, as the above example shows. Does anyone have any objection to this? Leithp (talk) 12:54, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

It should go. "famous for being at one club" is merely a matter of opinion. Even the first section should be trimmed, since Billy Bonds played over 100 games for Charlton, Ron Harris played for Brentford right at the end of his career, David O'Leary played for Leeds etc etc. Also, John Terry and Steven Gerrard are in their mid-20's. Shouldn't the list be reserved for players who are retired? SteveO 15:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'll remove it. I'll also remove Harris and O'Leary, per your comments. I also tend to agree regarding current players, for example when I was adding Scottish players I had no doubts about adding Willie Miller but I wouldn't have added Russell Anderson. Leithp (talk) 16:03, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I've also removed Billy Bonds. On current players, I think it's best to stick to players who are known to have spent their entire professional career at one club, as the article states. SteveO 16:08, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I missed Billy Bonds. Wrt current players, Ryan Giggs and Paulo Maldini seem reasonable to have on the list, given the length of time they've been at their clubs, but Terry and Gerrard seem to be stretching it, as you say. We should probably also have less of a UK-bias to the entries, at present Maldini is the only non-Brit on the list. Any suggestions? Leithp (talk) 16:17, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Maldini's been at Milan for 20-odd years, and is nearing the end of his career. He's unlikely to move away now, so it's reasonable to keep him. You could argue the same for Giggs. There should definitely be more non-British players here, and I'm sure there are plenty from the likes of Real Madrid, Juventus, Barca etc. But I can't think of any right now, though. I'll add them if I do. SteveO 16:27, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Possibly introduce a cut-off of, say, 15 seasons for current players. Maldini is probably the best known (POV) one club man, and he's still going; Giggs is a bit touch-and-go, and Scholes even more so. Theoretically, if we're going to make this truly famous OCMs, the list could probably be pared down to Adams, Le Tissier and Maldini... Kinitawowi 21:36, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I too have recommended 15 years as a minimum service length for inclusion in the article. I'll amend the article accordingly, with a reference pointing to the talk page. - Dudesleeper · Talk 16:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, Gary Neville has not been removed yet. I should note that it was me that added some current United players, but each of G. Neville, Giggs, and Scholes has now been at the club 15 years and shown no desire to leave. Based on your proposed cut-off, putting Scholes back in. Perhaps we should also have a category for this? Less noteworthy categories exist. Pellucidity 06:14, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I added some Italian one club man: Bergomi, Boniperti, Alessandro Mazzola... Gianni Rivera played his early years in Alessandria, Giuseppe Baresi (brother of Franco) spent all his career in Internazionale, but the last two seasons in Modena, Mariolino Corso always played for Inter but the last season in Genoa, Giuseppe Giannini spent almost his whole career at Roma, Gigi Riva played his first season in Legnano before moving to Cagliari: it's really difficult to find a one club man! P.S. sorry for the big amount of mistakes I made in writing, I'm not so good in English! --80.104.88.115 13:21, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I had a terrible time finding the one club men that I added a couple of weeks ago, so I sympathise. I wasn't able to find any South American ones at all, though I'm sure there must be a few examples. Leithp 13:46, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I've just found a couple now, though. Leithp 13:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Ricardo Bochini and Antonio Rattín are already in the list. they are the best known examples in Argentina, but there are many others. From the rest of South America, I'm not sure. Well known one-club men from Spain are Carles Puyol (BCN), José Antonio Camacho (Real) and Pichichi (Bilbao). Mariano(t/c) 10:03, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Nobody had added Francesco Totti in the list. Roma is his only club. I added him yesterday. Please check out and verify the same. -Warlord88

Steve Clarke

Played for St Mirren before moving to Chelsea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.67.203.137 (talk • contribs)

Luigi Riva

I deleted Gigi Riva from the list: as I told in this page some months ago, Riva also played for Legnano. --Lanerossi 12:24, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Vassilis Hatzipanagis

You can add Vassilis Hatzipanagis if you like. Ilakast 12:19, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Raul

Raul's barely turned 29. Isn't it a bit stupid to have him in the list, especially considering that he started his career at underage level with Athletico ? Niall123 17:43, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I concur. I've removed Raul. SteveO 11:57, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

In this case, I think only his relatively low age is an argument to not have him on the list. The fact that he spent 2 of his youth club years with Atlético Madrid shouldn't matter, imo, since he spent the 2 remaining youth years with Real Madrid, and has so far stayed with the latter for his entire professional career. -DraugenCP

Teodoro Lolo Fernandez and Jose Carranza

Teodoro Lolo Fernandez was a peruvian soccer player (1913-1996) had played only for Universitario de deportes from lima Peru since 1931 to 1953, he won 4 times the peruvian league and 6 times the leadership in goals (1932, 33, 34, 38, 40, 42 and 45), and he played the 1936 berlin olimpyc games, he won a america cup (1939) and he is the third most goaler in the american cup history. (see http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teodoro_%22Lolo%22_Fern%C3%A1ndez)

Jose Carranza (1964-)know as el puma, was a peruvian soccer player who had played only for universitario since 1986 to 2004, he won 7 peruvian leagues and played more than 60 clasic-games againts alianza lima. (see http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Carranza)

both of players are one club men too

Giuseppe Baresi

Giuseppe Baresi didn't spend all his career at Inter, he played last 2 season in Modena. Anyway, I found him twice in the list and I deleted twice... --Lanerossi 22:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Julen Guerrero

I believe Julen Guerrero was in Bilbao from 1992 to 2006 instead of 1982-1996 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.22.98.47 (talk) 03:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Gary Neville

All at Manchester United?

Re: Scholes, see below. - Dudesleeper · Talk 16:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Eligible for list in 2008

• Per Nielsen (Brøndby IF, 1993-present)
• Óscar Pérez (Cruz Azul, 1993-present)
• Paul Scholes (Manchester United, 1993-present)
• Francesco Totti (Roma, 1993-present)
• Lars Ricken (Borussia Dortmund, 1993-present)

Scholes is on the list now! Should it be now or 2008? Paulbrock 11:55, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I removed him again. An annoying anonymous editor has an unhealthy obsession about including him in the list. - Dudesleeper · Talk 13:16, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Eligible for list in 2009

• Yannis Goumas (Panathinaikos, 1994-present)
• Oka Nikolov (Eintracht Frankfurt, 1994-present)
• Raúl (Real Madrid, 1994-prsent)

Paul Hegarty

I should have stated in my edit summary that he has played for four senior clubs, not just clubs, since there are players in the list who have more than one team their infobox list. - Dudesleeper · Talk 09:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Small Table of Contents

As this list is fairly long, would a Compact tables of contents (as per Wikipedia:Template messages/Compact tables of contents) be suitable? I was thinking Template:CompactTOC2 is fairly unobtrusive and useful. Fedgin | Talk 11:25, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Oops. I was in the process of turning it into a sortable wikitable when you posted that. - Dudesleeper · Talk 12:03, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

That's much better. Looks good. Fedgin | Talk 12:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of: if anyone's up to adding a column containing the players' span at their club (which will help weed out entries that shouldn't be there), feel free. If not, I'll be happy to do it after the weekend. - Dudesleeper · Talk 12:14, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Fritz Walter

You can add Fritz Walter for 1. FC Kaiserslautern — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.94.40.69 (talk • contribs)

Done, per here. - Dudesleeper · Talk 22:12, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Mike Davies

I really should have read the full article first!!! Of course he is famous in some places....!! (Just not many!)♦Tangerines BFC ♦·Talk 03:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I've considered removing the famous restriction in the past, since it's somewhat POV, so I went ahead and did it. It's up to others to decide if that or some other restriction should apply. - Dudesleeper · Talk 03:13, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Looking at the names on the list anyway, I would consider Mike Davies to be on a reasonably similar standing "famous wise" to Michael Buskermolen. And I believe that the article should not be restricted to "famous" players partly because what is famous to one person is a complete unknown to someone else. In my opinion the article would be best being all inclusive to all pro footballers, as it is now. ♦Tangerines BFC ♦·Talk 03:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Jimmy Hampson

Played for Nelson when they were a league club prior to joining Blackpool. WikiGull 21:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

William Waddell

I have removed William Waddell but if he debuted at 17 then surely he was at Rangers for 18 years, not 9 as previously specified q.v. William Waddell Dirkbb 13:04, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

P.S. How about adding number of appearances or is that somewhere else? Dirkbb 13:05, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

As the note at the top of the article states, only active players must have spent at least fifteen years at their club. Retired and deceased players don't have to meet this criteria. There will obviously be some discretion as to what counts as a decent length of service at a club; retiring after a two-year professional career won't cut it.

As for the number of appearances, I considered it a while ago but, personally, I don't see it as being as relevant as number of years served. Dudesleeper · Talk 13:16, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Apols, and thanks for the reply. I see now that the operative word here is "active". Dirkbb 10:22, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Nae prob. And, now that I've given it more thought, maybe adding players' appearances and goals stats is worthwhile. - Dudesleeper · Talk 14:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Excellent, and I'll contribute if required as I would find this interesting information to have in one place. Dirkbb 14:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I think we need to add criteria for a minimum amount of time to be included. As, for example, people such as Peter Kaye could be included. Mattythewhite 16:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Right. This was mentioned in the Willie Waddell section above. - Dudesleeper · Talk 16:08, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

So, how should we go about this? I say a player has to have served a minimum of ten years at a club in order to be included. Implementing this criteria would only exclude two players in the current list. - Dudesleeper · Talk 12:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Ja oder nein, people? - Dudesleeper · Talk 13:56, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Sounds OK to me but why does the 15 year minimum apply to current players? If the concern is that they are young enough to still change clubs, thus rendering the information obsolete, then the information can always be changed. Plus, I think the 3 players named under the Antonio Puerta section (including Bill "Don't call me fatty" Foulkes) should be added to the list. Plus I still wanna see those appearances! Dirkbb 12:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Grabowski?

I think Jürgen Grabowski should also be eligible as his former clubs Biebrich 02 and Biebrich 19 are amateur clubs. Anyone disagree? -Lemmy-

Nope, don't disagree here. I'm sure I've added at least one player with amateur clubs listed in their article. - Dudesleeper · Talk 16:00, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

15 seasons for the club

How those seasons are counted? For example, Egor Titov started his professional career for Spartak Moscow in 1992, aged 15, and was theoretically eligible to play for the first team. Should he be included in the list (2007-1992=15), or seasons should be counted from 1994 when he actually played his first match for the first team? MaxSem 18:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I think we're going with the date on which the player makes his first-team debut. This is what's holding Paul Scholes back from being included until next year. He was a United youth player for two years before his debut in 1993. - Dudesleeper · Talk 22:47, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, why are several players with less than 15 seasons at their sole club listed here? - 217.43.105.203 18:42, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

The reason is given in italics at the top of the article page. - Dudesleeper · Talk 20:10, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Johnny Haynes

I have removed him from the list because, and check his page before posting him back up, he played a season at Durban City F.C. and as such his entire professional career was not spent with one single club. - 217.43.105.203 18:41, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment removed

Yeah, that'll help people see your side of the matter. - Dudesleeper · Talk 22:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

don't belive everything u read on Wikipedia. Haynes was a one club man as it says on the Fulham website. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.101.67.110 (talk • contribs)

This isn't Wikipedia. - Dudesleeper · Talk 14:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Bobby Charlton?

Didn't Bobby Charlton spend his entire career at Manchester United? Shouldn't he be there in the list? I checked his wikipedia article - "He played almost all of his club football at Manchester United" and he has played for only one senior club - ManU. Warlord88 07:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

He played for Preston right at the end of his career, something which is quite well attested (see here and here). Preston were in the Second Division at the time, so I'm unsure why his time there does not appear in his infobox. SteveO 11:41, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Having looked through the history of the Bobby Charlton article, his career with Preston was in the infobox, but was removed without explanation. I've changed it back now. SteveO 11:48, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

List order

Is this list random? I would vote for the list to be in alphabetic order by nation and then by year. What you guys think? Ordep 02:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

The list is in alphabetical order by last name. Plus, the columns are sortable separately by clicking the arrow next to the column heading. - Dudesleeper · Talk 09:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Lars Ricken?

He should be eligible for list in 2008? tontotti

I've added him to the above list. - Dudesleeper · Talk 14:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Francesco Totti

does he count? He has been with Roma (including youths) since 1989 (seniors since 1993), he was in the Lodigiani youth squad for a period but never actually played first team football for them.-- SalvoCalcio 10:12, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

He's eligible next year. See list above. - Dudesleeper · Talk 16:49, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

João Pinto

Portuguese player João Domingos Pinto spent 16 seasons (81-97) with FC Porto. Shouldn't he be in the list?

Giuseppe Baresi

he played for inter from 1978 to 1992. Shouldn't he be in the list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wael.Mogherbi (talk • contribs)

If Inter was his only club, yes, but he also played for Modena. - Dudesleeper · Talk 09:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Adelardo Rodríguez

Known just as "Adelardo". I think he should also be in the list. Played for Atlético de Madrid from 1959 to 1976, when he retired from "big" football and joined a futsal team. Yeah, before playing for Atlético he was part of many minor clubs in Extremadura, his homeland, but I think they weren't even professional. His first club in Primera División was Atlético. 89.130.53.218 18:03, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Antonio Puerta

we should add Antonio Puerta —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wael.Mogherbi (talk • contribs) 22:22, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

For a three-year career? - Dudesleeper · Talk 00:56, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Hungarian Florian Albert played only for Ferencvaros 1958-1974, was best european player in 1967. He should be on the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.108.239.155 (talk) 17:51, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

What about bill foulkers? Played 18 years for Manchester United, his one and only club. 86.15.103.173 23:51, 18 September 2007 (UTC)James P

Why isn't Sotiris Kaiafas on this list? He played 17 seasons for AC Omonia in Cyprus, won the Golden Boot, and is widely considered the best Cypriot footballer ever... - Justin

The page isn't protected. If these players are genuine one-club men just add them. SteveO 00:11, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Alessandro Costacurta!

Costacurta played for Milan for 22 years, except for the 86/87 serie a sesason where he was loaned out AC Monza, so in reality he played for 21 years but he DID play for all those years and is a hero in Milan, technically he never left the club....

Alessandro Del Piero is not eligible for inclusion for 2008 as he played between 1991 to 1993 for Padova:
Alessandro Del Piero (Juventus, 1993-present)

Raul is eligible for inclusion for 2009:
Raul (Real Madrid, 1994-present)

Costacurta played 21 years for Milan, but he was loaned one season to Monza, so he didn't spend his entire career only in one team (as the article says: A one-club man is a term used to describe a football player who has played his entire professional career with only one club.) --Gaúcho 15:06, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Seriously?? sometimes a player has no choice but to be loaned out from the club by the president....so just for ONE season in the 80's, even after 21 years of playing with ac milan, ur denying him????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.211.73.146 (talk) 03:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not denying his great career at Milan, I'm saying that he DIDN'T play his entire career in only one team simply because he didn't (even if it was only for one season...) --Gaúcho 17:29, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikilinking to the talk namespace

The main page links to the talk page for the list of players eligible for inclusion in 2008. Isn't this against the rules? DamionOWA 08:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)