Talk:Mary Boleyn

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A Winner of the August 2004 West Dakota Prize

This entry has won the West Dakota Prize for successfully employing the expression "legend states" in a complete sentence.

A Winner of the September 2005 West Dakota Prize

This entry, one of an unprecedented 52, has won the September 2005 West Dakota Prize, awarded for successfully employing the expression "legend states" in a complete sentence.

Titles

As far as I can ascertain, Mary Boleyn was married to William Carey in 1520 (which would make her Lady Mary Carey), but prior to that was the daughter of a knight, which would make her plain Mary Boleyn. Her father didn't become an earl until later. I don't see any period when she woulad have been Lady Mary Boleyn. Deb 23:50, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Remember to change the article to express the facts, too. —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 07:03, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

≈this is the istory why is`ent there a timeline of all this? 15:21, 15 September 2006 (UTC)15:21, 15 September 2006 (UTC)~~Ξ±±±±±±

There is a possibility, under etiquette, that she and her sister could have been styled "Lady" even prior to 1520, because they were the granddaughters of the duke of Norfolk (the premier aristocrat in England) and the earl of Ormonde (the premier aristocrat in Ireland.)

I see. That wouldn't make it a valid article title, but it's interesting. Deb 19:20, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, she would have been known as "Lady Mary" (i.e., Lady Firstname) after her father's elevation to an earldom— from 1529 if the date in his article is correct—because she was not married to a peer and her precedence and courtesy title as an earl's daughter was higher than that of a knight's wife. So from birth she would have been Mistress Mary Boleyn; Lady Carey (wife of a knight) on her marriage in 1520 (assuming he was knighted before his marriage); Lady Mary Carey from 1529 when her father became an earl, and Lady Mary Stafford from 1534 (rather, from the time the secret came out), on her second marriage.

I have never heard of a duke's granddaughters being allowed a Lady Firstname style, but things were less rigid in Tudor times. Certainly the king could have granted any style he chose. Laura1822 17:32, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Would Mary's title have been affected by her father's elevation even though she was married? I wasn't sure, I don't know the protocol for daughters of men elevated to the rank of duke/marquess/earl who marry before their father receives the title. "The Other Boleyn Girl" stated that she was not affected, but that's hardly trustworthy. - Holly.

question

why is`ent there A timeline of this great suff i mean should`ent we be able to skim through and find what we need faster? if so we should speak up and get a freaking timeline thnk later

This article is full of problems. The fact that her date of birth is unknown, then in the following paragraph, a specific date of 1514 "when she was about 15 years old". Which is right? Was she about 15 in 1514, or was she born between the years given in that 20 year time span?

This article needs serious cleanup and fact checking.

I don't believe it needs fact checking. There is a clear reference to the historical works and sources which support a date of c. 1499, which means she would have been "about" 15 in 1514. It is only a 9 year period of debate, not 20 - the guesses for her birth are between 1499 and 1508, but - as the reference shows - the standard historical answer is 1499, 1500 or 1501. User:Gboleyn

Yes, I agree, the article looks okay as it stands. Deb 21:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The 1499 date stems from the fact that the date of her parents' marriage is usually set around the 1498/9 mark, so she couldn't have been born earlier than that. Mary would have had to be born in 1508 or earlier because she married in 1520 and twelve was the minimum age for marriage. One historian I know of to use the 1508 date for Mary is Professor Warnicke, who bases her reasoning on the fact that it was Anne and not Mary who was sent to the Netherlands and as it would be unusual for Anne to be given this opportunity ahead of an older sister, Mary must have been younger than Anne. However, this is directly contradicted by documentary evidence; the letters patent for Anne's elevation to Marquess of Pembroke referred to her as "a daughter" of Thomas Boleyn, not "the elder daughter", as would certainly have been the case if she had been the older of the two, and Mary's son, Henry Carey, would later claim the earldom of Ormonde through his mother's right, a title that would have belonged to Anne's daughter, Elizabeth if Anne had been the older sister.

Given what is known of Mary's life before her marriage, an earlier date is more likely. - Holly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.43.66.207 (talk) 16:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction altered

I removed the "and gained infamy" from the description of Mary - it basically read, "she was the member of a titled English family who wielded power, and gained infamy, in the Tudor period." This is an inappropriate tone for an encylopedia article - "infamy" is subjective in this context. User:Gboleyn

Question on Sources

Although, I am sure that the information is being sourced correctly, I am curious as to why the sources for Weir, for example, only give her name and a page number. Why are the titles of the books where the information came out of from Weir not listed there as well? I know it sounds silly as they are listed below but it might look neater to have only one section with either the sources or just a reference section with the title of the book, her name and a page number. Virgosky 15:51, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you to whomever fixed it. Virgosky 13:51, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Genealogical reading

Could someone help? I think the genealogical reading sentence should be sourced better as to whether Weir said it or Ives. I removed it for now. If anyone can find the source then please put it back up. Virgosky 22:13, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have also removed the sentence about Weir and Ives suggesting when she was born and Mary's pregnancy at William Carey's death. After re-examining some of their books neither Ives nor Weir ever suggested any genealogical error nor those two theories. Both of them seem to simply question whether both or if either child was ever fathered by Henry VIII. Virgosky 16:32, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The opening sentence isn't worded sufficiently

"Mary Boleyn was a member of the famous aristocratic Boleyn family, which enjoyed considerable influence during the early part of the 16th century".

Influence over what, exactly?--203.214.5.237 13:57, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There's no point in adding unseen comments to the text of the article. If you don't think the phrase is meaningful, make an appropriate amendment to the article. Deb 18:14, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]