Talk:Marvel Universe

Heaven and Hell

The reference to the comic-book existence of Heaven and Hell was insulting to both atheists, other non-Christians, and Christians depending on your take. I modified it to realworld religious belief which is more npov.216.2.193.1 13:37, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

The Social Network of the MU

this part of the article says: The most socially networked character in the Marvel Universe is Captain America. how ever reading the article in the link makes no mention of Cap thus i am removing it Weaponbb7 00:32, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

"Marvel Comics" vs. "Marvel Comics universe"

One of the two terms above is used in most entries for Marvel Comics characters, which generally say either "so-and-so is a fictional Marvel Comics superhero" or "so-and-so is a fictional superhero in the Marvel Comics universe" (as it says, for instance, in entry for Ego, The Living Planet]

The two terms each link to separate Wikipedia entries. They mean different things -- one entry is about a comic-book company, the other about an internally consistent fictional setting, ala Tolkein's Middle-earth -- yet they are used interchangeably.

For consistency and clarity, it might be good to establish some sort of standard language for these Marvel Comics entries. -Tenebrae, Sept. 6, 2005, 8:30PM ET

There is also potential confusion and link complexity in regards to the Marvel Comics multiverse - particularly when talking about various titles that never or rarely interact with the main Earth-616 storylines. j-beda 14:20, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

The standard I've seen -- and which I myself use -- is "So-snd-so is a fictional character in the Marvel Comics universe." Seems to cover all bases. Dr Archeville 20:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

You may want to check Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics, then. These are not fictional characters in the Marvel Universe. They are fictional characters who live in the Marvel Universe. That point was made just the other day on that project page's talk page. --Chris Griswold 21:07, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Really? Where? I'm not seeing it on there. Dr Archeville 21:32, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Section moved from main article

MARVEL UNIVERSE POWER RATINGS

During the early 1980s, Marvel Comics published a series called "The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe" and this handbook contained detailed biographies of virtually every character in the Marvel Universe along with detailed descriptions of their abilities as well as ratings to give fans an idea of how they ranked compared to other heroes. The abilities measured included: Intelligence, Strength, Speed, Stamina, Agility, Reflexes, and Fighting Ability. They rank as followed:

Intelligence: Ability to think 1 - Non-Sentient: instinctual behavior only 2 - Learning Impaired: major mental deficiencies 3 - Below Normal: minor mental deficiencies 4 - Normal: possessing an intelligence quotient that is approximately average 5 - Above Normal: possessing a significantly higher than average IQ 6 - Gifted: possessing a significantly higher than average IQ and creative talents 7 - Genius: possessing an extremely high IQ and creative talents 8 - Extraordinary Genius: possessing genius in multiple intellectual areas 9 - Superhuman: possessing genius in virtually all intellectual areas 10 - Immeasurable: alien, omniscient

Strength: Ability to lift weight above one's head with arms fully extended 1 - Below Normal: cannot lift one's own body weight 2 - Normal: able to lift one's own body weight 3 - Athlete: able to lift from one's own body weight up to double one's own body weight 4 - Peak Human: able to lift double one's own body weight to 800 pound range 5 - Enhanced Human: able to lift in the 800 pound to 2 ton range 6 - Superhuman Class 10: able to lift in the 2 to 10 ton range 7 - Superhuman Class 25: able to lift in the 10 to 25 ton range 8 - Superhuman Class 50: able to lift in the 25 to 50 ton range 9 - Superhuman Class 75: able to lift in the 50 to 75 ton range 10 - Superhuman Class 90: able to lift in the 75 to 90 ton range 11 - Superhuman Class 100: able to lift in the 90 to 100 ton range 12 - Incalculable: able to lift in excess of 100 tons

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Speed: Ability to move over land by running 1 - Below Normal: cannot attain 3-5 miles per hour 2 - Normal: peak range: 6-10 miles per hour 3 - Athlete: peak range: 11-20 miles per hour 4 - Peak Human: peak range: 21-35 miles per hour 5 - Enhanced Human: peak range: 36-65 miles per hour 6 - Superhuman: peak range: 111-115 miles per hour 7 - Subsonic: peak range: 250-500 miles per hour 8 - Speed of Sound: able to reach Mach 1: 770 miles per hour at sea level 9 - Supersonic: peak range: Mach 2 to Mach 4.6: .22-1 miles per second 10 - Orbital Velocity: peak range: Mach 18.7 to Mach 23.3: 1-5 miles per second; when a runner reaches this speed he is no longer in contact with the ground and thus not running

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Flight Speed: Ability to move through open air or space by flying 1 - Hover only 2 - Directed Motion Hovering: peak range: 10-30 miles per hour 3 - Natural Winged Flight Limit: peak range: 150-160 miles per hour 4 - Artificial Winged Flight: peak limit: 160-200 miles per hour 5 - Subsonic: peak range: 250-500 miles per hour 6 - Speed of Sound: able to reach Mach 1: 770 miles per hour; .22 miles per second 7 - Supersonic: peak range: Mach 2 to Mach 4.6: .22-1 miles per second 8 - Orbital Velocity: peak range: Mach 18.7 to Mach 23.3: 1-5 miles per second 9 - Escape Velocity: Mach 32.7: 7 miles per second 10 - Sub-light Speed: peak range: 80% - 99.65% light speed: 150,000 to 185,620 miles per second 11 - Light Speed: 186,000 miles per second, cannot be attained by physical beings within Earth's atmosphere 12 - Warp Speed: able to enter and traverse through warp space by transcending light speed, cannot be attained by physical beings within Earth's atmosphere

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Water Speed: Ability to move through water by swimming (NOTE: 1 knot=1.151 miles per hour) 1 - Normal: peak range: 3-5 knots 2 - Athlete: peak range: 7-12 knots 3 - Peak Human: peak range: 12-15 knots 4 - Enhanced Human: peak range: 20-25 knots 5 - Superhuman: peak range: 50-60 knots 6 - Maximum: around 700 knots, detrimental environmental effects will occur, causing water to convert to plasma, etc

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Stamina: Ability to sustain peak exertion before fatigue impairs performance 1 - Below Normal: unable to sustain for 1 minute 2 - Normal: able to sustain for 1 minute 3 - Athlete: able to sustain for several minutes 4 - Peak Human: able to sustain for up to an hour 5 - Enhanced Human: able to sustain for several hours 6 - Superhuman: able to sustain for up to a day 7 - Metahuman: able to sustain for several days 8 - Demi-godlike: able to sustain for weeks 9 - Godlike: able to sustain almost indefinitely 10 - Immeasurable: never tire due to self-generating energy

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Durability: Ability to resist or recover from bodily injury or disease 1 - Below Normal 2 - Normal: average resilience 3 - Athlete: conditioned metabolism enabling efficient healing 4 - Peak Human: conditioned metabolism enabling extraordinarily efficient healing 5 - Enhanced Human: skin, bone, and muscle augmented to make it stronger and harder than human; impervious to injury to a certain extent 6 - Enhanced Human Regenerative: skin, bone, and muscle retains human durability but body is able to heal near-lethal injuries by regenerating cells to a limited extent 7 - Superhuman: skin, bone, and muscle augmented to make it stronger and harder than human; impervious to injury to an extraordinary extent 8 - Superhuman Regenerative: able to regenerate injured tissue and brain cells to an extraordinary degree; but not able to regenerate missing limbs or organs 9 - Metahuman: able to withstand extreme temperatures and pressures, and virtually all toxins, corrosives, punctures, and concussions without sustaining injury 10 - Metahuman Regenerative: able to regenerate injured or missing brain cells, tissue, limbs or organs 11 - Demi-godlike: able to withstand all injury short of a direct nuclear explosion 12 - Demi-godlike Regenerative: able to heal all injury short of a direct nuclear explosion 13 - Godlike: able to reconstitute body after total molecular disintegration 14 - Totally Indestructible: absolutely cannot be injured

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Agility: Ability to move the body with flexibility and coordination 1 - Below Normal 2 - Normal 3 - Athlete 4 - Peak Human 5 - Enhanced Human: beyond the natural limits of the human body 6 - Superhuman: significantly beyond the natural limits of the human body 7 - Metahuman: extraordinarily beyond the natural limits of the human body

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Reflexes: Reaction time 1 - Below Normal 2 - Normal 3 - Athlete 4 - Peak Human 5 - Enhanced Human: beyond the natural limits of the human body 6 - Superhuman: virtually instantaneous 7 - Metahuman: instantaneous

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Fighting Ability: Knowledge of fighting skills and techniques 1 - Below Normal: Weak, Sickly 2 - Normal: Possesses no combat training 3 - Athlete: Possesses some combat experience, but no formal training. 4 - Athlete: Possesses considerable experience in hand to hand combat. 5 - Peak Human: Mastery of one form of hand to hand combat, martial artist. 6 - Peak Human: Mastery of multiple forms of hand to hand combat. 7 - Peak Human: Mastery of all known forms of hand to hand combat.

The above is incorrectly sourced and badly formatted, and if it is derived from another source it's a copyvio. Stat blocks are not included in Wikipedia aricles (see talk:Strength levels (comics). -Sean Curtin 01:22, Oct 2, 2004 (UTC)

Cosmology/Concepts

I feel as though there is too much common ground between the "Concepts" section and the "Cosmology" section. For instance, the list of "pseudoscientific principles" could easily have been included in Cosmology. I am not sure how to fix this right now, but I thought I should mention it.

-I wrote the concepts section to explain all the particularities of the Marvel Universe; someone else divided my post into "concepts" and "cosmology." I have no problem with this, although I think the mention of the Living Tribunal in this section is superfluous. The Tribunal has its own Wikipedia entry, plus I'm planning on writing a page that explains the Cosmic Beings in detail. -Wilfredo Martinez

-I just updated the 'Concepts' section, but the page seems to have reached the 30k limit. I believe this can be resolved by editing the other sections of the page, and possibly shifting stuff to other articles (such as passing the comments on the cosmic trinities to the Cosmic Beings page.) I will attempt to do that in the following days. Wilfredo Martinez 07:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

• As promised, I've edited the article: I moved the text blocks that were unnecessarily detailed to other pages where they fit better: "Squadron Surpreme", "Cosmic Beings" and "Living Tribunal." Wilfredo Martinez 05:24, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Marvel Universe Time

• Of you do the marth you know how many years pass in the the Universe ! (ex.The Second Spider-man Clone Saga is Nine Morths) / (Mary Jane Watson was pregnant at the time)--Brown Shoes22 01:25, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is possible to find out how much time has passed in the Modern Marvel Era (that starts after FF #1, and keeps sliding forward) but it would take too much research to find out exactly how much. The closest aproximation is that about a week of Marvel Time happens between each issue (unless indicated otherwise.) It was indicated (by the Avengers' celebration of their 10th anniversay not that long ago) that the Modern Era is only slightly more than ten years long, which fits with the one week per month formula. Wilfredo Martinez 01:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

You can also count seasons or holidays which would tend to make time go quicker. Marvel does not do a lot of Christmas Specials and that sort of thing, but the winter/summer cycle seems to occur much more quickly than the 10-year modern era idea would imply. j-beda 16:04, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, well, that's more of a feature of the method of delivery than the actual text of the timeline. M*A*S*H had ten Christmases or so, all crammed into a supposed two-and-a-half-year timeline. You just have to sort of forgive that sort of thing and just enjoy the stories. That's not the sort of thing you can ever hope to have resolved, because not much good would come of it. --Chris Griswold 18:26, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Splitting the Page up

The page has gotten too long again, mainly on account of all the lists. I'm thinking of moving them into their own article, as I did with the ones in the DC Universe article. Wilfredo Martinez 01:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I am inclined to make 'Crossovers and major events' into its own article, as I think it has the potential for a comprehensive historical overview. Any suggestions on a good title? Crossovers and major events in the Marvel Universe? or something smaller like History in the Marvel Universe?

We already have Timeline of the Marvel Universe, but I don't want to move the crossovers there because it would make the page too long. So yeah, we should give it its own page, and link it to the Timeline. How about "Events of the Modern Age Marvel Universe?" Wilfredo Martinez 03:46, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I think I've seen the Android-Human-Torch-to-present (1939-present) period referred to in several canonical sources as the 'Heroic Age' and less frequently as the 'Age of Marvels'. If we could get references for one of these labels, it would be a better way, IMO, to have a short but descriptive page name (ex. Age of Marvels (Comics)).--StAkAr Karnak 21:36, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

The article is leaning far to the long side. Could we split it up into stages of history, perhaps before and after a major change in the artistic or tone of the comics? arctic 05:06, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

It seems that it is agreed that the article should be divided. If there is no opposition, I'll proceed to break it into separate "Marvel Universe", "Events of the Marvel Universe" and "Features of the Marvel Universe" articles as soon as I can (possibly tomorrow.) Wilfredo Martinez 06:24, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Done. Wilfredo Martinez 02:38, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

One of the pages that this spun into, I believe, was Everyday Life in the Marvel Universe, which is up for deletion right now. Satan's Rubber Duck 00:43, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Incorrect. I made that entry before I saw this one. It's up for deletion because it is uncited, and some of it is original research. As the creator and contributor of 99 percent of the article, I am asking for it to be deleted. The parts of it that haven't already been copied into Features of the Marvel Universe can be, though much of it falsl below the notability required for such a page. I threw some one-issue wonders in there. --Chris Griswold 01:55, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Thor introduced in the late 1940's

Thor was introduced in the late 1940's in the Venus series, not in the 1960's.

That is debatable. The 1960s character was at least initially meant to be a new one, and in fact not even a true god at all. Luis Dantas 13:04, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Power Cosmic vs Power Primordial

"the Power Cosmic has come to refer directly to Galactus' power. It has been stated numerous time the Elders employ the Power Primordial and NOT the PC." (Comment by MrBigB, inserted here by Wilfredo Martinez.)

Where? References, please. I looked up Power Primordial on Google and could only find a reference to it on a Marvel Two-in One Annual- written at a time before the Handbook of the Marvel Universe identified both the Elder's and Galactus' powers as being based on the Power Cosmic. And please discuss these changes in the Talk page, otherwise do not complain if they get removed without warning. (You might want to get a Talk Page of your own, I would've asked you there first before deleting your changes if you did.) Wilfredo Martinez 03:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe you are confusing the concept of "Power Cosmic" with that of "cosmic energies." The handbook states that Galactus and the Elders both use "cosmic energies" IIRC, while the earliest Handbooks may have mistakenly used the terms interchangeably it was rectified in later editions. The Power Primordial, the energy that is employed by the Elders, is best explained in the early issues of Silver Surfer Vol. 3. The Power Primordial is supposed to be the leftover energies of the Big Bang that remain throughout the universe, it is distinct from the Power Cosmic, even though both are technically "cosmic energy." - MrBigB

Added some stuff

Added the following information: "The humanity has a great evolutionary potential, the Supreme Intelligence of Kree once informed that it had the ability to reach supreme powers as "the Destiny Force".

In mutants and in most other superhumans, the energy needed for their powers comes from within as it is a part of their own bodies. In other cases, like it is with individuals who are transformed because of exposure to gamma radiation or for other reasons, the powers depends on an outher source, either directly or indirectly by storing the energy in the body cells which function as batteries. Their powers will remain as long as the energy is present, and can even be increased by filling the "batteries" even more. But once they are empty, the powers will fade away. The powers of for instance gamma exposed humans also seems to be the result of a feedback mechanism between the body and mind when transformed."

If someone has questions about it, just ask.

Origin of Superhuman Powers & Pheonix Force

I removed the Pheonix Force from the list simply because it doesn't belong there, IMO. The list contains things like the battery effect, Darkforce, Living Light, and Power Cosmic, which are all superhuman powers or the source of powers. The Pheonix Force is a cosmic entity, and there is already a page of for Cosmic beings which does list the Pheonix. If we are including entities who are the source of superhuman powers then this would be one long list indeed. TheBalance 13:58, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, you have convinced me. Good call. --Chris Griswold 21:05, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Sweet. Pheonix Force removed. TheBalance 21:11, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Since I haven't seen any story that points at the PF as being a general source of superhuman powers (The way The Source is in the DC Universe) so far, fine by me as well (doesn't mean there won't be one someday, though.) -Wilfredo Martinez 14:28, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Earth-616

I don't think this article should be merged with the Earth-616 one, because it would focus too much detail on one aspect of the MU- I've been trying to shift those to other articles for a while now. If anything, the E-616 article should be merged with the Marvel Multiverse one. - Wilfredo Martinez 02:01, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. Merge it with something, as it sets a precedent to create an article for every single earth, in addition to an article on the miniseries it's featured in. --Jamdav86 09:50, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Seconding merging Earth-616 into Marvel Multiverse. I think there's more information in Marvel Universe that could be merged in there too, since this article pertains to a specific Marvel universe, not all Marvel universes. -- SamSim 23:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

History Section Removed?

Why was this section just removed? Is it because it lacks especific sourcing? If so, I'll look for some, add them, and then restore the section. I think it's very ironic that the part that discussed the Marvel Universe in more real-world terms was the one removed. -Wilfredo Martinez 02:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Marvel Movie Universe

There used to be a link here to a Marvel Movie Universe article but the article was removed because it had no evidence supporting it but there are still two dead links to it. This should be cleared up and by that I don't mean simply removing the dead links. If some of the Marvel movies contradict each other then this is conclusive proof that there is no Marvel Movie Universe and we should add this to the article. If some of the director's commentaries or production documentaries refer to the "Marvel Universe" when referring to the movies, then this is conclusive proof that the Marvel Movie Universe does exist and we should point it out. If there is no evidence either way, then we should explain that it's ambiguous and can be interpreted either way. My personal opinion is that the Marvel movie are all set in the same universe simply because that's the way it is in the comics, novels, cartoons, video games and any other media. 218.215.146.184 01:22, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the Marvel movies share the same universe. Franklin Richards makes a minor cameo in X2 on a computer, so there's a little crossover. Also, Dr Strange is mentioned in Spidey 2. I'm sure the Iron Man and Cap America movies will merge to form the Avengers movie. Paul730 10:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

There's a rumour going around that the Ironman and Hulk movie are gunna merge to form a set-up for an avengers movie. 80.5.140.139 (talk) 23:09, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't Franklin's appearence prove that the movies don't share th same continuity's... He hasn't even been born in the F4 series so how could he be inthe X-men movie if it's the same univese? 80.5.140.139 (talk) 23:09, 17 December 2007 (UTC)