Talk:Once (film)

Completely Diagetic Sound, or 99%

Sorry to be uncontributive in this way, but I distinctly remember an instance of nondiagetic sound, music, at one point in the film, having remarked previously how it all appeared to be diagetic. Having been a week, I've forgotten, so if anyone watching it again could take a look, thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.226.183.163 (talk) 07:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I think that at least one if not more of the songs move away from being diagetic during the song. Being new to the term, I'm not absolutely sure if I'm thinking of this correctly or not. But many of the songs change setting after beginning, with montages beginning and settings changing while the songs play. Also, some songs start live, and then are enhanced by unseen musicians as the song segues from live to recorded versions. --Melty girl 19:00, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler Tags

CMB, please justify your deletion of spoiler tags on the talk page, not in edit summaries. You cannot use WP:SPOILER as an authority, since it is disputed. --Jere7my 20:57, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Who said it was an authority? It's only a style guide, anyway. The argument for removing spoiler tags is simple: they are redundant in the places that I removed them from. — Carl (CBM · talk) 00:14, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Carl, I don't think that's really a valid answer to Jere7my's concerns. Wikipedia has many policies -- are we to throw them all out? I think Jere7my is right to point out that the policy is disputed. Jere7my, I can understand why you might want spoiler tags -- after all, Wiki newbies might expect that no one would print endings -- but it is also true that the header of the section in question is "Plot," not "First Half of the Plot" or "Premise." In terms of a compromise, would you feel better about there being no spoiler tags on this article if either 1.) the opening of the article included the premise of the movie without spoilers, or 2.) there was a separate "Synopsis" (or other titled) section above "Plot" that gave the premise of the movie? --Melty girl 04:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Yep! In general, I think that having separate "synopsis" and "detailed summary" sections work just as well as spoiler tags, so that sounds like a good compromise. I think that duplicates the functionality of the spoiler tag, and I'm more concerned with that functionality than with the specific implementation. That requires a bit more individual work than simply deleting spoiler tags wholesale, but I think it's worth it. --Jere7my 07:28, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Excellent. Well, I'm not sure how soon I'll get to it, but if no one else implements this idea, I will. --Melty girl 15:35, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Currency Conversion

I realize that the film budget numbers come straight out of the IMDB box office information page, but I think there must be a mistake in the currency conversion: €180,000 is much closer to $250,000 than the listed $150,000. I suspect there is a typo on the IMDB page. Are there any other sources for this information? Mrwhizzard 04:47, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Carney says the budget was €130,000 in the Creative Screenwriting podcast, which shakes out to $182,000 currently. Robixsmash 20:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, what we have is the conversion at the time of production (see the cited source). I don't think we should keep updating it for subsequent change in value. --Melty girl 20:26, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 19:37, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Legendary Spielberg

Is Steven Spielberg legendary? I was certain that he actually exists Mrscruffy 18:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

The American Heritage Dictionary's second definition of legendary: "Extremely well known; famous or renowned." But anyway, why don't you change the word to something more neutral if you don't think it's appropriate? --Melty girl 19:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

translation

Can we talk about this? I'm not convinced that we can't include the Czech phrase and even its translation. The phrase is clearly said - if it were in a language that we might be more familiar with - like if she said "Je t'aime", I think we would probably just say that "she said 'I love you' in French" , or at the least would put the French words in because we would know what they are. The translation of 'miluju tebe' is apparently available on language translation sites - we could footnote it that way I suppose, but I am not sure I agree that we can't include it at all, at least the Czech words. As an analogy - maybe a weak or incorrect one, but let me try it - I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think we see any signs that say that the scene is Grafton Street, Dublin. But it clearly is - we recognize it - and our article so identifies it, correctly I believe. I would completely agree, of course, that we should not speculate on what she said - as in the end of Lost in Translation where we don't hear what Bob whispers to Charlotte - but this is not speculation, it's a clearly uttered phrase. Thoughts? Tvoz |talk 22:35, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I understand your desire to keep the info, but do you even know for sure if what she says is "miluju tebe", much less that that means, "It is you who I love"? We need to be able to verify it. I tagged it as "citation needed" for a long time, and no one added one. When the DVD comes out, we may learn more from the extras -- or if you can find an article that verifies what she says in Czech AND what the translation is, that would be citable. But for now, all we have is one editor's original research. What she said was not translated onscreen with subtitles for the audience, which means that 99% of the English-speaking audience had no idea what the Girl said, just like the Guy, and that the filmmakers intended that ambiguity. Even if the WP editor was right about what she said and also translated it correctly, our including the translation in the Plot section changes the meaning of the movie significantly. The Girl's words were intentionally left untranslated, so we should not translate it in the Plot section at all -- when we can verify it, we should probably put it in the Production section instead.

For more on how the decision was made to finally cut this, please see the discussion on the WikiProject Films talk page. --Melty girl 02:36, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think there's a clip - maybe in the trailer - that shows her saying "miluju tebe" - too late tonight for me to hunt it down, but I'll look tomorrow. We don't typically verify words that are said when we quote from a film, I don't think, whatever language they're in. I understand the problem of including the English translation without verification, as I say up front, and take your point about not putting it into the plot section - but that's something else. I'd be satisfied at least with the Czech, and readers can verify themselves. (Of course there are Czech-English translation sites that could do this and we could use as citation.) But first I'd like to at least see the Czech words there, as I don't think they should have to be verified more than any other quote, in principle. Tvoz |talk 09:15, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

And I'll read the discussion you pointed to tomorrow too - thanks. Tvoz |talk 09:16, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I just re-watched that scene on DVD with English subtitles. The subtitled Czech is probably not accurate, but for what it's worth, it says that his line is "Noor-esh-ho" and her reply is "Noor-ho-tebbe" Rossmcd (talk) 05:08, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Seems like parentheses are used for situations like this (where there is a meaning that is either intentionally not conveyed or is assumed to be understood). By putting the assumed translation into parentheses, both English and Czech speakers could gain the information, and the precise meaning (i.e., did she really say what equates with "I'm in love [with you, him, etc]"?) could be left somewhat to the reader's interpretation. Given the audio commentary and the context of the scene in the film, that seems what was intended in any event. To leave the text as it now is in the article seems to stray from describing the plot to character analysis (or, at the risk of using another set of parens, to engage in wishful thinking, and constructing a dialogue that would fit with a particular outcome for that scene). C d h (talk) 12:46, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I've fixed the plot -- I missed that someone put in the supposed translation. I've deleted it, so now it's back to the status it had earlier in this discussion: it's what happens in the film, namely that the Girl answers in Czech and won't translate for the Guy. Since no translation is provided onscreen, none is given in the Plot section. --Melty girl (talk) 08:20, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

"supposed translation" you dont make a sence. He asked her:" do you love him?" trying to say it in Czech. "Miluješ ho" She clearly answers:"Miluju Tebe" (I love You). I speak both languages. I also happend to own this DVD which has subtitles. Since this movie is spoken in both languages i dont see no reason why not leaving translation of that part of conversation. This is not like someone has to filter part of conversation, like in "Lost in translation" ending. 71.99.80.190 (talk)

Whoever you are, please stop

Who keeps changing the budget listed on the page from euros to dollars? The movie was made in Ireland, so shouldn't the money displayed be in the currency it was shot on? And another thing, i had listed that the film was realeased in Ireland and the UK scince november, yet the DVD release section only displays when it's out in north america. WHY? So whoever keeps altering the correct editing I've done please stop it. I have enough to put up with, with Ben.W.Bell changing every film listed as Irish to british. Alright? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.134.54.3 (talk) 21:10, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Please try to be more civil next time; this is a collaborative process that isn't about what you "have to put up with." Your rude comments show that you've failed to read the history tab's edit summaries, where all the edits I make are explained, and you would discover that your edits are not "correct." You also would have learned about WP policies that go against your assumptions: Once is an international article, because while it was made in Ireland, it is distributed by an American company, made most of its money in America and was internationally distributed. Therefore, according to the Wiki policy WP:$, as an article that's non-country specific, the currency of the article should be USD; the policy requires one currency, and all figures are sourced/cited. People are free to add information about the film's other DVD releases, but anything that does not have a valid citation can be removed. Just cite reliable sources and your info will stay. --Melty girl (talk) 21:28, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not entirely convinced that it's an international article, this is a pretty firmly Irish movie despite the distributor. Stating the production budget in USD in the main text seems to imply american funding to me and becomes misleading as the dollar changes in value against the euro. 28 Days Later seems a good example with production in £ and worldwide gross in $ in the infobox and £ first then $ in the main text, that being a British movie with US distribution and having made the majority of it's money in the US. Even if this is an international article, WP:$ doesn't require _one_ currency but states 'Some editors also like to provide euro and/or UK pound equivalents'. Unless there are serious objections here, I'll apply the 28 Days Later currency usage (with euro rather than £) to this article in a few days time. Timffl (talk) 01:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

28 Days Later is a B-class article, and as such has received little scrutiny against policy: it's never had a peer review or GA review, much less an FA review. Therefore, it can not be held up as an example of acceptable style guidelines in practice. Like many Wiki articles, it is a work in progress and is filled with problems. Let's be clear: there is no example to be applied from that article. So back to the WP style guideline in question... WP:$ states: "In non-country-specific articles such as Wealth, use US dollars (US$123). Some editors also like to provide euro and/or UK pound equivalents, formatted as described in the next section." That means, in non-country-specific articles, use USD, and optionally "also" provide equivalents -- give USD alone or list both USD and Euros together. Last, I don't think a case can be made for this article being country-specific. It was internationally distributed -- that means the financial involvement of American businesses backing this product and its first success involved American audiences. This article doesn't just cover the production phase; it covers distribution, reception and financial success. Cork is an Ireland-specific article; Once is not.

For those who don't like this policy or believe that this is article is somehow specific to Ireland, I think this question is best taken to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (dates and numbers) for policy changes and/or to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Films to ask how to this WP policy is usually applied to an internationally released film. I actually don't think the policy is written as clearly as it could be, and I don't necessarily agree with it -- I was actually scolded in the past for not knowing about it -- but I do believe in following WP style guidelines and want to move this article towards a higher rating. --Melty girl (talk) 01:56, 4 January 2008 (UTC)