Talk:German name

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old

Is there a law or authority that establishes allowable names or forms of names? Rmhermen 17:55, May 19, 2004 (UTC)

No, it is within the power of the Standesbeamter (officer of the authority registring births and marriages) to judge whether a name is appropiate and legal. So if you want to give your child un unsual name, you just have to convince this officer that this name is common (or at least used) in some country and that it tells the sex. Sometimes, the Standesbeamte might also refuse a name because it can be regarded as offensive or derogative and become a problem for the child. Of course, you can appeal against a decision at a court (which will usually bring you a satiric report in your local newspaper about the strange names some people insist on giving their poor children). Sanders muc 18:29, 19 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Could you add some of that to the article? Rmhermen 20:27, May 19, 2004 (UTC)

Triple surnames

"More commonly, the spouses combine their Nachnamen by a hyphen, and so one of them (or both) then bears a double name (Doppelname). (There is a limit of only one hyphen in a name.)" -- This is not totally correct. There are also so called "old double names", which already existed for a long time (one example that just comes to my mind is "Müller-Lüdenscheid"). In these cases, a new double name may have three components and two hyphens. Because those old double names are rare, though, there are very few cases (although I happen to know one person - only one, and most people, probably none at all, just to show how rare they are). I'm not sure whether, and if, how, to put this information into the article, because it will complicate matters for only very rare exeptions, so I haven't changed the article. --222.13.236.80 09:50, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Fräulein

Are girls up to say, 16 or 18 addressed that way socially? Or are they only addressed by first name? In many English speaking countries, you would never call a teenage girl "Ms. Angela Smith" in an invitation. She's either plain Angela Smith or Miss Angela Smith. Writerchick 13:18, 4 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- In spoken language, teenagers are usually addressed with their first name and using du. At school, teachers typically start using Sie at age 16 but usually stick to the first name. Parents call their children's teenage friends the same they: always with first name (and using Sie if the tennager is older than, say, 16 or 18, and they have not known him/her from earlier time). For written letters the general rule is (independent of age) that you start with "Liebe(r) <first name>" if du is used and "Sehr geehrte(r) Herr/Frau <last name>" if Sie is used. In the latter case, the address on the envelope should be preceded by Herr/Frau, in the former case this is optional. Oh, and written invitations printed on neat cards are not as common as in Britain, anyway. Simon A. 16:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

--> So in other words, even 14 year old girls are addressed as "Frau" on an envelope? In English, most people would never dream of addressing a 14 or even 17 year old girl as "Ms. Lastname." Writerchick 20:50, 4 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No. In virtually all contexts, one would simply write the first and last names, e.g., "Julia Schmidt." Except in very formal situations, it is now quite common to address correspondence to anyone (regardless of age) that way anyway, i.e., leaving out the Herr/Frau/Fräulein is virtually always safe. --ThorstenNY 19:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And what about boys? Let's see: How would a maybe old-fashioned English grammar school teacher address his pupils? As "Mr. Potter", "Mr Weasley" and "Miss Granger", I suppose. Granted, not as "Ms Granger" (and I still wonder how "Ms" is pronounced). But, of course, English has less a problem with "Miss" than German. The English "Miss" used to imply that the adressed woman is unmarried, and now, it implies that she is not mature yet. The German "Fraeulein", however, is gramatically a diminuitive of "Frau". This renders the old style of adressing a, say, middle-aged unmarried woman as Fraeulein (literally "little-Missis") unbearbly derogatory, and a woman would hence take it today as an insult. This fact tainted the use of "Fraeulein" sufficiently to see any use of it as faux-pas, and so it is also no longer used even for young girls.

After all, one argues, for boys there never was a problem: If they are young, you address them by first name, and if they are old enough to be considered mature, you use "Herr" and the last name. Of course, there is this age region of roughly around 16, there everybody feels uncomfortable with both options (You can't call him by first name and with "du" as he's no longer a child, but for being adressed as "Herr" he is not enough of a man yet either.), and so people use the first name and "Sie" in spoken language, if they don't know the adressee well.

In letters, it may depend: If it is official mail, from some administration or company, it's probably some standard text anyway and not matched to the adressee's young age, and hence its To "Frau Lisa Meier". If it is a birthday card from a kid's uncle or grand-parent, it may have a Herr or Frau in front for "You have grown so much and are a big child now.", but that is slightly jocular. An official invitation for the wedding goes to the parents anyway, etc. If I think about it I haven't got enough mail as a child to really know what people would write on envelopes.

Any clearer now? Simon A. 16:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In proper address, a young boy is addressed as "Master So-and-so" Traditionally, a boy is "Master" until he is 12 or 13, then plain Firstname until he is of age. I have heard, in some cases, of boys being addressed as "Master" until they are 16. Of course, I have also heard of teenaged boys being addressed as "Mr." As for "Ms." it is pronounced "Miz" Writerchick 23:28, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Even for Germans, this sounds incredibly bureaucratic and restrictive. I'm actually shocked. --Q4 15:58, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Same Name As Parent

"If a son bears the same Vorname as his father (which is quite uncommon in most areas of Germany)..."

As a genealogist, I know this for a fact to be untrue. However, I would like to know the source of this from the author, in case his experience may be a regional phenomenon.--KYJustin 20:27, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

agree, in some areas its even common that a son is named after his father (Vorname) and uses Jun. in his name (Alexander Schmid and his son Alexander Schmid jun.)

Not unlike other Western countries it was quite common to give kids a parent's name, but as of 2007 I find it unthinkable that people would still do this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hanszarkow (talk • contribs) 02:51, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Well, my parentsd did^^. I actually have the same name as my father and my grandfather and the father of my grandfather, 'Hermann'. We are no aristocrats at all, we just got used to it, and it is something really original if you consider that no other family is doing that. I don't know anyone else in Germany with this tradition. I will name my son Hermann too (if I will ever have one), just to leave everyone flabbergasted...

Paris, 21.03.2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.44.70.35 (talk) 15:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fröken

Does anyone know where the "Fröken" example comes from? I'm just wondering because "Fröken" actually means "Miss" (i.e., "Fräulein") in Icelandic. -- Schneelocke 08:52, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rachel

I deleted "RACHEL is a bad name". I wonder who added this and why. Sanders muc 17:10, 19 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose it's because it just doesn't sound good in German.

Rachel isn't very common in Germany but i know several girls with this name. I think that this comment was antisemitic... (there's a nazi song (Rachel, weisst du überhaupt was ein Rabbi ist?).

Crenshaw??

Is that really one of the most common names? never heard it...

It was vandalism. Fixed now. Rmhermen 03:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rejected Names

I would very much like to know what source was used for the list of names parents came up with that have been rejected by the state. It concerns the name "B'Elanna Torres", I'd like to know if that case really existed or if there might be further information. If anyone can help me, thank you in advance. Thought I might be able to reach the author with his. juste.doute@gmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.177.161.251 (talk) 15:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

shortened names

> It is fairly uncommon to use shortened names officially (like "Bill Gates" instead of "William H. Gates, III"). So even if all of Benjamin's friends call him "Benni" (German short for Benjamin), he will always write his name as "Benjamin".

That is by no means true. There are loads of people whose official names are Bernhard or Heinrich and who will call themselves Bernd and Heinz when writing their name. --85.181.237.17 (talk) 16:28, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

lie

"It is strictly forbidden to give children Doppelnamen." This is not completely true. I'm German and I know German children with Doppelnamen. I don't know the law, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.227.219.235 (talk) 23:16, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hofname

I'd like to see a reference for this one. I've never heard of it before and no reference was given. CsikosLo (talk) 17:25, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A longer explanation is at de:Hausname, unfortunately in german :-)