Talk:HM Fort Roughs

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Archive 1 - pre March 29, 2005

New discussion

The first Talk page was of excessive length and it has now been archived. In order to clean this article up I have removed it from the controversial position in which it found itself, since it had become isolated as an orphan. Because I began the article (see the history of my numerous original edits), and because no one else wants to clean it up, I have removed all of the controversial lead-in material and I will rewrite the rest so that it is a history of HM Fort Roughs: how it began and what happened to it. It is being rewritten as an article about British history and a British Royal Navy installation situated on British territory and regulated by British laws, all of which are or will be documented and referenced and footnoted. I will gladly answer any specific question about any of the factual parts of the article that I have written. I do not wish to get into personal disputes of any sort. If you have a question about anything that I have written, please ask about that item and I will do my very best to answer in a cordial, friendly and factual manner. I would appreciate the same response. Thank you. MPLX/MH 05:08, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Please mention Sealand in the lead section. Thank you. Rhobite 05:11, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

May I bow to you and ask you to perform same? It might be helpful in order to avoid more controversy after attempting to defuse the same. MPLX/MH 05:19, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I figured you'd revert it or something if I added it. I hate to start this argument all over again, but this article looks an awful lot like a fork, sans Bates. Rhobite 05:25, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

What I am attempting to do is to remove all controversy concerning micronation status and just deal with the plain history of this installation. I noticed that since objections have ceased the fantasy has taken over the other article which contains a lot of non-factual details (such as the installation being abandoned after WWII and Bates being the first to occupy it. There were other squatters there before him and he threw them off.) My intention is to stay in the world of the United Kingdom and real law on this article, which is why I offered to defend any specific statements (or, if I cannot support them, I will gladly remove them.) I just don't want to get into time-wasting nonsense which is why I asked you to perform the task you suggested, in order that whatever is written - I didn't write it! I just trust to your wisdom and common sense to try to keep this article on the straight and narrow path of documentation. MPLX/MH 05:44, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I think it is a good idea to deal with Roughs Tower seperately from the Principality of Sealand. When I first learned of the existence of Sealand I was quite curious and requested information from them. I recieved signed letters and pictures from the Prince Regent, which is kind of cool. Regardless of all of that, Roughs Tower was designed to be a military installation and I think that this history is quite valuable and separate from the history of Sealand. We must understand why this big chunk of iron is out at sea to begin with to know what the heck they are trying to establish today. Rowlan 14:20, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That's what the Maunsell Sea Forts article is for. We currently have at least 5 sloppy articles on these subjects, which could easily be 3 articles (Sealand, Mr Bates & his pirate radio station, the forts). --kingboyk 21:44, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removed Text

I've been busy merging and consolidating articles. A lot of redundant, competitive material has gone, and we have some slicker articles now. However, I didn't find a home for this paragraph which I have just removed from HM Fort Roughs. It clearly doesn't belong there, as it's not about the fort per se, it's about sovereignity (Sealand) or Radio Caroline and related ventures. The info also happens to be unsourced. I'm posting it here so that an interested party can place it in the correct article (but not back into HM Fort Roughs please!)

The history of contemporary claims* appears to have begun with people associated with Alan Crawford who started Radio Atlanta which later became a part of the Radio Caroline network owned by Ronan O'Rahilly. Alan Crawford outlined a scheme to turn a sandbar into an artificial island using junk cars filled with concrete as a means of holding added landfill in place.

*of sovereignity over man-made structures in the sea by pirate radio operators

--kingboyk 01:37, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Photographs of Sealand

I found this support cross section picture rather interesting and if it's avalable for upload to wiki then somone should add it>

Photo of the Inside the support leg. It appears to be living quarters

http://www.gunfleet.com/page6/files/page6-1112-full.html

More pictures of Sealand and Roughs Tower are mixed in here: http://www.gunfleet.com/page6/page6.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.125.89.33 (talk) 06:43, 24 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Relevance of detail

I'm wondering if much of the detail here would better belong in Principality of Sealand, Legal status of Sealand, or Radio Essex (pirate radio station), or be deleted as excessive detail for a general enyclopedia. My feeling is that this article should concentrate on the platform itself (and could even be merged into Maunsell Forts). Right now it has a lot of info on law, pirate radio and Radio Essex, some of which is duplicated elsewhere, and much of which isn't totally on topic.

Please see Talk:Principality_of_Sealand#Sealand-related_articles. --kingboyk (talk) 15:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That would be because this article was originally called "Sealand: A Legal History". Deffo need to get some of this material into a Radio Essex article, some of it into Sealand articles, and some of it zapped pronto... leaving a nice article on the construction and wartime use of the fort and a potted history of it's post war life. --kingboyk (talk) 14:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of this has absolutely no relevance to HM Fort Roughs. I am going to delete the information that has no relevance, and anything that needs to be added to the other articles can be found in the history page of this article. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate (talk) 10:28, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rewritten

I have rewritten the article, as it is about the fort itself. It now recounts the history of the fort up to 1967 when the Principality of Sealand was founded - after that it becomes part of the history of Sealand. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate (talk) 10:59, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Text in diagram too small to read

And it is not possible to click through to a larger version - why cannot it be a .jpg file rather than SVG (whatever that is). 80.0.103.195 (talk) 23:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]