Talk:Crown Heights riot

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Archives

Archive 1

Archive 2

On mixing scholars with opinions of the community

Wikipedia's charge is to cite scholarly evidence first, especially as it pertains to material in peer-reviewed journals and periodicals. Therefore, the moving of material from the 2nd scholar who was making a different point than the first scholar under a footnote to an opinion of the community is preferring secondary evidence over primary evidence. I have no problem with the opinion of the community being cited, so I have attempted to group the material together as the previous editor intended, but left the best evidence first. 68.43.236.4 (talk) 23:21, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to combine the two academic references. I don't see any good reason why the lede needs to cite two professors and their lengthy titles. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 00:16, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, and it looks better.68.43.236.4 (talk) 02:42, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Section on Aftermath

In my view, this section should remain. It serves two purposes: (1) One of the primary slogans during the riots was that Jews are not allowed to buy property and move into the Crown Heights. This demonstrates the riots failed to promote that cause. (2) Most Jewish groups left Crown Heights as immigrants moved in, with the notable exception of the Lubavitchers. The fact that they remained, even after the riots, indicates their desire to live peacefully with all their neighbors, even those who don't desire their presence.

I am uncomfortable with an editor who decides unilaterally that a section is irrelevant. IMO, after someone has added material, there should be a discussion on this page first prior to deleting it.68.43.236.4 (talk) 13:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you feel that I was mistaken, please restore the section. In this instance, Yehoishophot Oliver has already done so.

Here's why I think the section is irrelevant:

The article already had a section about "Relations between Blacks and Jews in Crown Heights" after the riot. Relevant information, if any, belongs in that section ("Healing in Crown Heights", which maybe should be renamed "Aftermath" or something similar) instead of a new section.
The article says that Black residents of Crown Heights were concerned about Hasidim expanding into the neighborhood and buying all the property. It's inconsistent to say in one place that Jews in Crown Heights viewed Black complaints as attempts to hide antisemitism and in another that after the riot Hasidim kept expanding and buying property.
Property values all over the United States, but especially in New York, have "risen dramatically" since 1991. Does any reliable source say that the increase in property values in Crown Heights is related to the riots?

I just discovered that the section is a word-for-word cut-and-paste from Shapiro. Regardless of our views of the subject matter, copyright violation is a serious problem: If it stays, the section has to be revised to paraphrase what Shapiro says, not quote him verbatim.

Anyway, that's what I think. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 08:25, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Request to Archive

If someone knows how to Archive this page (to "Archive 2", please do so up to but not including the section "On mixing scholars with opinions of the community", which is where the discussion resumes after the mediation. Thank you.68.43.236.4 (talk) 13:11, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I archived the messages as you requested. For future reference, click on the word "Archives" to get help on archiving a talk page. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 07:33, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! It seems to be a rather complicated procedure.68.43.236.4 (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

67.189.242.42

The statements added by this editor are false.Edstat (talk) 04:01, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Death of child not mentioned until 5th paragraph of second section

The article overview / lead paragraph mentions that the child was "struck", and the next mention tells us that the child was "injured", and it's lmost in passing in the 5th paragraph that we learn the child died. It seems like the overview paragraph could mention that the child was "struck by the car and subsequently died from the injuries" or something. I know that this article is politically charged, and however the story is told will be controversial. But the boys death does seem almost willfully buried here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.86.248.1 (talk) 13:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good point. I'll take a stab at fixing it. — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 02:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Typical

This is how all american riots involving blacks start. Either a black person is killed accidentally so the blacks destroy everything in sight, or a black criminal is killed while running from or attacking the police, and the blacks think this is somehow unjustified. Typical racist blacks that cry victim victim victim but when the chips are down they show their true colours as the worst racists of all. It figures that sick minded bastard Al Sharpton was there. Where were Jesse Jackson and Farrakhan?