Talk:Ann Arbor, Michigan

Transportation

I removed the part about a trolley to Briarwood. First, it's wrong, this was going to be light rail, not a trolley, and the tracks are not disused. Second, it's obsolete, this has not been discussed in years as far as I know. Feel free to put this back in if you have a source for this information. Rees11 11:39, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Culture

UMS: Is this really a performing arts group? They don't perform themselves, they bring in groups to perform. Maybe I'm being too nit-picky. If we do mention them, shouldn't we give the full name rather than the acronym? Do we really want to say they're 129 years old, which means someone will have to edit the article and bump the age once a year? Better to say what year they were founded.

"Ann Arbor ranks first among U.S. cities in the number of booksellers and books sold per capita." This oft-repeated claim was debunked in a story in the (I think) February Observer about Ann Arbor myths. Rees11 16:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I removed UMS as the organization, from my knowledge, is associated with UM. As for the booksellers per capita, can you provide a link to the source you are talking about? I can't seem to be able to get a hold of the Ann Arbor Observer online. Pentawing^Talk 00:53, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

It was actually January, not February. I don't have the title but it's a story about Ann Arbor myths and legends. I'm afraid I don't care quite enough to check the sources myself, but I thought I should mention it here. Rees11 01:10, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Here's what they say on their website: "While proudly affiliated with the University of Michigan and housed on the U-M campus, UMS is a separate not-for-profit organization that supports itself from ticket sales, grants, contributions, and endowment income." Ropcat 03:29, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Sister Cities

I removed the new list of sister cities. I don't think we need two lists, and the new one was incorrect; Peterborough linked to the one in England, for example. Rees11 16:56, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

OK, I don't get it. The duplicate list of sister cities has re-appeared. I'm going to remove it again. If the current list is wrong, fix it. If it's in the wrong place, move it. I don't think we need two lists, and if we do, they should at least be the same list. Rees11 14:16, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Geography

I would not say that State Street and South U are part of downtown. To me, downtown ends and campus begins at Division. But I don't have a reference so maybe it's just me.

I also changed the part where it says the Arb is near downtown but again I have no reference, so I will yield to majority opinion on this if everyone else thinks I'm wrong. Rees11 16:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

A few data points: I've also always thought of downtown as extending only to somewhere around Division. However, I also know many people who include central campus and its adjacent commercial areas in their definition of downtown. BobDively 17:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

There are a lot of different ways to define "downtown", but regardless of how you do, saying that the Arb is just east of central campus is better. As to the question of what constitutes downtown, I see a narrow and a broad interpretation.

• • Narrow: Downtown is approximately bounded by Ashley on the west, Division on the east, William on the south, and Catherine on the north.
  • Broad: Downtown is approximately bounded by the train tracks on the west, Washtenaw/Forest on the east, Hill on the south, and the Huron River to the north. Cmadler 18:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I just checked the City's Downtown Development Plan and it covers all the way to the corner of South U and Washtenaw, so I'll shut up now. But thanks for the confirmation that I'm not the only one who thinks downtown stops at Division. Rees11 16:49, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Ann Arbor shops and businesses

Recently, someone added the following passage to the article:

Ann Arbor also boasts several locally owned, decades-old unique retail survivors that also function as retail tourist attractions. One example is Sam's Clothing, which opened in the 1940s and resembles a lower-cost L.L. Bean, selling 'basic clothing' (jeans, t-shirts, sneakers, and socks). Another store is The Blue Front Party Store, called this ('Blue') because the original owner sold children's toys and adult magazines side by side. In 1981, the owner died and left the store to his favorite employee, who auctioned off all the old toys for their original grease penciled-on prices. It then became much the full-service, legendary party store it is today.

Though I am familiar with the two stores, the problem is that I can't find any online sources describing them in detail. Recently, there is a Wikipedia user who is demanding citations for many articles, including those that are featured (the above passage has no citations). Hence, can anyone try to dig up some other sources that can be used as citations? Thanks. Pentawing^Talk 23:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, and I would add that almost any city is going to have "locally owned, decades-old unique retail survivors," so I'm not sure these should even be listed. If we start listing them, where do we stop? Rees11 22:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

"Retail tourist attractions"? Sam's is a nice store (I shop there myself), but there's nothing particularly unique about it. The clothes that they sell are also sold by large chains and catalogs. And there are a half dozen other non-chain, small clothing stores downtown. BobDively 23:37, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I grew up in A2 in the 60's/70's (but left nearly 30 years ago). During that time, Herb David's Guitar Studio (I hear that it has moved) was not only a cool second-floor practice room space where many talented local players gave lessons and rehearsed, but a luthier shop that did very sophisticated craftwork and some high profile guitar repairs/customization. Many well-known musicians of the era from SE Michigan and elsewhere were connected with the shop. Reputation said that John Lennon had some guitars worked on there in the "Free John Sinclair" days; Bob Seger hanging around, as well as Fred Smith, Iggy, and I believe Kris Kristofferson. Anyway, Herb David should probably get some mention.

Gabriel Richard

I see someone added Gabriel Richard to the list of Ann Arbor private schools. But it's not actually in Ann Arbor. Does it really belong here? Rees11 12:52, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Reese11 - Gabrieal Richard is attached to St. Thomas Church, only blocks from downtown Ann Arbor, and certainly within city limits.Ewhite77 17:31, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by "attached to." I can't find any mention of St. Thomas on their web site. They appear to be administered directly by the Lansing Diocese, not by St. Thomas. And the building is not anywhere near St. Thomas. Rees11 11:36, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

It must've moved. When I went to St. Thomas elementary (admittedly ~ 20 years ago), Richard was connected to the actual building of St. Thomas School (directly next to the church itself). From your report, it sounds like that is no longer the case.--Ewhite77 18:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

They moved out of town a few years ago. I'm not sure what's in the building now but it's not a school. Rees11 14:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I took out Gabriel Richard. Rees11 02:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

If Roe v. Wade is overturned

I had heard years ago (I live on the East Coast of the US) that if abortion were to be made illegal again in Michigan, that the maximum penalty if a woman were to undergo an abortion in Ann Arbor would be $5. 216.179.123.52 14:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I grew up in AA, and this sounds very much like an urban legend.Ewhite77 15:52, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I live in Ann Arbor now, and I'm an attorney and pro-choice elected official. The claim is complete nonsense. Abortion IS ALREADY a felony in Michigan statutes, since it was illegal before Roe v. Wade, and the legislative compromise over the years has been not to change the law. If the Supreme Court turns the abortion issue back to the states, Michigan reverts to status quo ante of abortions being totally illegal. Hence, in the wake of such a decision, Michigan will immediately become an abortion law battleground.

The slim basis for this rumor: 30 years ago, Ann Arbor was famous for its $5 marijuana fine. Also, some years back, the city held straw votes declaring itself symbolically a "zone of reproductive freedom" as well as a "nuclear free zone" and probably several other things. Kestenbaum 03:06, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, it is not entirely symbolic. It is indeed a part of the City Charter, and it is modeled on the $5 pot law. In essence, it is a charter amendment passed in April 1990 that declares that if abortion ever becomes illegal in Michigan (i.e. state anti-abortion law becomes prosecutable after Roe is overturned), it will also become a civil infraction in Ann Arbor, subject to a $5 fine. Furthermore, the city attorney may only prosecute under the Ann Arbor civil-infraction code, and may not refer the complaint to any other authority for prosecution. So it appears that the original commentator is pretty much correct. Please see the following two USA Today articles, along with the 1990 amendment to the City Charter. Whether this would stand up in court is unclear.

"Michigan," USA Today, April 4, 1990: "ANN ARBOR - Backer of measure to set $ 5 fine on abortion if it's ever illegal praised 15,698-8,578 passage. Residents also voted, 12,901-11,419, to raise city's $5 marijuana fine to $25. Foe Rich Birkett: 'The people were clearly pro-choice on abortion, and I expected them to be pro-choice on marijuana as well.'"

Steve Marshall, "City Hopes to Thwart Michigan on Abortion Law," USA Today, Feb. 14, 1990, p. 3A: "Voters this spring will decide if their city should become a 'zone of reproductive freedom' - a place where state abortion restrictions could be circumvented by minimal local penalties. The proposal would not change the legality of abortion; only Michigan lawmakers can do that. But it would allow local judges to assess a $5 fine for violators - unless the Legislature mandates tougher fines. ... No matter what the state Legislature does, Ann Arborites - many of them University of Michigan students - will vote on their $5 law April 2. ... The proposal is the brainchild of Sabra Briere, a 39-year-old secretary at the university's School of Public Health who says she was 'sick and tired of someone else deciding what was going to happen with our lives.' Her drive to get the measure on the ballot got three signatures over the 3,720 needed. The wording of her proposal to amend the city charter is modeled after the $5 pot law, though questions about its legal effectiveness remain."

And here is Chapter 20 of the City Charter: Declaration of Zone - SECTION 20.1. The people of the City of Ann Arbor declare the City to be a Zone of Reproductive Freedom. SECTION 20.2. Restrictions on Reproductive Freedom (a) No person within the City of Ann Arbor shall violate any law, rule, or regulation of this state which restricts or prohibits the right of any woman to an abortion, or which restricts or prohibits the right of a person to perform an abortion, as such right existed on January 20, 1981. (b) Any violation of Section 20.2(a) shall be subject to a sentence of up to $5.00, including judgment fees and costs, and no probation or any other punitive or rehabilitative measure shall be imposed; provided, however, that this section shall not be construed to prohibit deferred sentencing. The District Court clerk shall accept any plea of guilty, which is made in the same manner as admissions of responsibility are accepted at the Parking Violations Bureau of the Fifteenth District Court as of December 1, 1989. Persons of any age pleading guilty of violations of this section shall be allowed to tender the sum of $5.00 to the District Court clerk as a full and complete satisfaction and discharge of liability, and no appearance before a district judge or other judicial officer shall be required. (c) In all arrests and prosecutions for violation of this section, appearance tickets and the relevant procedures set forth in Public Act 147 of 1968, as amended, shall be used. (d) No city officer, agent, or employee shall complain of the violation of Section 20.2(a) to any other authority except the Ann Arbor city attorney; and the city attorney shall not refer any said complaint to any other authority for prosecution. (e) The people of the City of Ann Arbor specifically determine that the provisions contained in this chapter are necessary to serve the local purposes of providing just and equitable legal treatment of the citizens of this community, and in particular those women seeking safe abortions; and of providing for the public peace and safety by preserving the respect of such citizens for the law, and for the law enforcement agencies of the City. Such provisions are necessary within the City because of the widespread local support for reproductive freedom. (Sections 20.1-2 added by election of April 2, 1990)

Ropcat 06:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

But Ropcat the law is not aimed at the woman or provider, they are aimed at maybe protesters? Or if in the event RvW overturned those who report ilegall activity with a $5 fine so all in all misleading disscusion unless I mis something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by F Tech (talk • contribs) 06:04, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Shaky Jake Woods

I know nothing, but this seems notable. --AVRS 10:09, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

yeah, it's important. it's the featured article on Sunday's front page. Shakey Jake is an Ann Arbor icon- if Blanket Man has an entire article devoted to him, then i think Shakey Jake should at least have some mention on the Ann Arbor page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.46.116.204 (talk) 22:17, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Major highways

Do we really need so much detail on the major highways? Also, US-12 doesn't actually go through Ann Arbor, does it? Rees11 (talk) 18:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)