User talk:Avnative

See also July/August 2004 discussions here.
See also August/September 2004 discussions here.

Ridge Route

Your Ridge Route "Swede's Cut" picture is huge (> 1 Mb) and oversized (1818 x 1228 pix). Why not downsize it 90% to, say, 200 x 125 pix? Also, it is an unusual .jpg format, my photo editors do not recognise it. 213.51.209.230 20:25, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Topo map

I'd be happy to work on a map for Palmdale. I'll have some time over the next few days to obtain the data and to look at what might best suit. We can carry on any necessary conversation here about what you'd like to see. -- Kbh3rd 21:34, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

That would be awesome of you! What I have in mind is something similar to the Tehachapi Pass article, where Decumanus placed a wonderful topo map. Or if that map would be a good template, maybe use it. Let me know your desires. Your kind attention to this is very much appreciated. --avnative 22:22, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

Okay, you can examine the first try at Image:Palmdale_region_topo.jpg. Don't be shy about asking for modifications if it's not quite what you were looking for. Do you need the location of Palmdale more precisely indicated, e.g.? The names of some of the valleys, or would that be too cluttered? ...

Wow, that's fantastic! One big request and two typos: Could you perhaps place the words "Antelope Valley" where you currently have "Mohave Desert" (in the same size font)? Then in the top right hand corner (or as near to it as you can) place the words "Mojave Desert" in the same size font, etc. as you currently have for "Mohave Desert."
The two typos are "Mohave Desert" which in California should be Mojave Desert and "Santa Anna Mts." which should be Santa Ana Mts.. That's our Spanish language heritage for you. . . easy for those outside the Golden State to misspell California place names! Also, lovely detail including the ocean and Catalina Island. . . lots of people don't think people living in Palmdale are within a reasonable driving distance to the beach. They are wrong. . . and your map helps prove the point. Excellent so far. . . let me also clue my fellow Wiki editor in on your map. THANKS BUNCHES! --avnative 02:36, Aug 28, 2004 (UTC)

Well, isn't my face red! I had the correct spellings right in front of me, and I am usually a stickler for detail (as I suspect are most Wikipedians.) The amended map is at the same location; you may need to force a refresh to see it instead of the old one in your browser's cache. --Kbh3rd 03:45, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Ummm, I can be clumsy too, so don't feel too bad about your misspellings! I goofed and made a revert on top of your EXCELLENT revision of 20:39, August 27, 2004. My bad on the revert. . . but KEEP the revision right where it is! I'm waiting for my neighbor Wikipedian anon to get back to me here. Thanks ever so much, and Happy Trails to you! I live one desert valley west of where Roy Rogers and Dale Evans had their museum, which has since relocated to Branson, Missouri. . . which I gather is your neck of the woods. --avnative 04:13, Aug 28, 2004 (UTC)

Looking Good

Topo map looks great. There's a need to re-spell a few things though. I also think that San Fernando Valley, Inland Empire, Edwards AFB, Barstow, and Anaheim should also be placed as identifiers since they are also popular locations in the region. It would also make the map re-usable for the Antelope Valley, Edwards AFB, Los Angeles, Anaheim, and Inland Empire Articles.

Lancaster info box

I have started the Lancaster info box in my workzone on my talk page. The city seal still needs to be uploaded, and the city limit highlight changed from Palmdale to Lancaster. I will input the city flower & tree information.

Anon, I can see the work in progress. Doin' great so far. Please don't feel any time pressure on the task from me. . . We all have jobs, lives, etc. to perform, too. Mackerm of course is the one who will have to change the city limit highlight from Plm to Lan. Would you like to give him a message on it? --avnative 16:11, Aug 29, 2004 (UTC)

Palmdale photos

On a side note: Palmdale's pictures should definately show urban (ie: busy intersection like Rancho Vista/10th West and a photo of the freeway looking south from the Avenue O bridge) as well as rural (ie: Joshua Trees, where the city got it's mistaken name and it's city tree). This will give Wikipedia users an understanding of it's various geography and help explain the truth about the misinformation that Palmdale is a village instead of a city. It will add meaning to what you said about the 1970's film industry. (Why Angeleno's think the way they do.) An aerial picture (like from Mt. Tenhi) would be cool too, especially a nighttime one. --Anon 08:09, Aug 29, 2004 (UTC)

Now you let me know your requests for specific shots! (surprised facial expression) Ummmm. . . What I already have is Palmdale City Hall and the new site of Anaverde School. I wanted to get a good shot of the Fall Festival, but they didn't turn out so well (it was too dark at sunset). I ran out of film. I've got access to a really excellent camera, though, and think I can get your requested shots easily. If that camera turns out not so accessible, I'll continue with my disposable camera(s) and "punt" so as to get it done, OK? --avnative 16:11, Aug 29, 2004 (UTC)

Landsat image

I've uploaded a Landsat image that you might find useful for the Palmdale and/or Antelope Valley articles. Let me know if you'd like any text labels added to landforms. -- 22:48, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I like the Landsat Image. I think that it is more graphically descriptive than the other topo map. Is there a way to input the same type of information (cities & mtns.) on this picture as the other topo map? --Anon 07:37, Aug 29, 2004 (UTC)

I combined the two. Take a look at this oblique view of the Landsat imagery draped over the digital elevation model. Kbh3rd 08:48, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The combined version looks very nice in present form, thanks kbh3rd! I agree with Anon in it being more graphically descriptive (plus I like showing our small sprigs of green). One small correction: please replace "San Bernadino Mountains" with the correct "San Gabriel Mountains." Then I'd say it's ready for moving to the Palmdale article page. . . Anon, any thoughts from you? --avnative 15:27, Aug 29, 2004 (UTC)

I hardly consider labelling the mountains with the wrong name a "small" error. In my defense let me note that I made that image at 4 a.m. after an 18-mile bike ride.[1] I've uploaded a corrected image for your inspection. Be sure to force a refresh if the old version is in your browser's cache. Kbh3rd 20:39, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

If you take out one "s" in "Mojave Desert", I'd say it's perfect! Thanks for the revision. I'm being kind when I said "small". . . as you can see, even I am capable of making proofing errors the first time around when tired - I was up the same hours you were with another project, shall we say. . . Sounds like a great bike ride, and in a St. Louis August, at the cool of the night sure beats humid heat! (grin) --avnative 21:38, Aug 29, 2004 (UTC)

Done! Kbh3rd 22:45, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Yup! I'd call it finished. Understand your frustration with typos. Thanks so very much for all your help! --avnative 23:18, Aug 29, 2004 (UTC)

Outstanding job. Landsat image looks great. We need to place an identifier somehow that lets Wiki users know that North is to the right, not up. This map is extremely detail oriented and allows users to gain an adequate understanding of our topography and geography. Good Work Kbh3rd! --Anon 05:11, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)

Heeeeere's Lucky!

I guess I needed more of a Wiki-breather than a Wiki-vacation. In any case, I'm back, ready to battle the B-Movie Bandit and get our Ridge Route article nominated! Yee-haw! - Lucky 6.9 21:09, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, pal! Frank Capra was quite the Coachella Valley dweller. Not only that, Capra's family lived on the same street my mom did when she was just a little kid. She remembers him when he was still a film student! He's buried just a couple of miles from me. - Lucky 6.9 03:08, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Mom was awfully young at the time, but it would be interesting to see how much she remembers about him. As for ol' Huell, I had the pleasure of meeting him at an outdoor charity concert in the Palm Springs Indian canyons a couple of years ago. I even ate at the same table that he did. Really nice guy. Oh, and the cemetery that Capra is buried at is the Coachella Valley Cemetery in Coachella on Avenue 52 and Jackson Street. - Lucky 6.9 03:47, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

E-Mail Received

Hey, I received an e-mail from the Palmdale city staff and they love the page.

They had one request though. They want us to replace the "city seal" with the full "city logo". They do not have an approved city seal right now. They also requested that we place a disclaimer in it -- "Requests for use of the City of Palmdale logo must be made to the Communications Division at Palmdale City Hall. (661) 267-5115."

They sent me a .jpeg of the full city logo, which I need to upload. I don't know how to do it though. --Anon 22:40, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)

Great! I knew they'd love the page. They are being overly cautious on the use of the seal and the logo they sent you via email, though. . . We need to explain to them about WP and the GNU Free Documentation license situation. Before I tell you the rundown on how to upload images, let me call the City of Palmdale and get to the bottom of this - hopefully today - OK? (smile) Hang in there. . . Great work you are doing of late! --avnative 23:26, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)

Hey Anon, per my discussion with Barbara La Fata at Palmdale City Hall right now, it's best to hold off using the seal or logo. Please delete it from the page for now - it's not copyrighted just yet - and when it's finally copyrighted by the City of Palmdale, then we can revisit the matter with Barb and go amicably from there. Eventually I think we can get the seal on the article's page once again, but it will take time to get the copyright issue solved first. Fair enough? Any questions, please feel free to ask me. --avnative 23:56, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)

She sent me the same reply regarding the use of the seal to remove it temporarily. I have removed it already and I will hold onto the city logo until it becomes copyrighted. In the meantime, I am awaiting a similar reply from Lancaster regarding their logo as well. I am also working on the "About Lancaster" section in MS Word. I will transfer it to my workzone once finished so you can copyedit it before posting on the Lancaster page. Cheers! --Anon 05:19, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Good deal. Lancaster will probably want to do the same thing about their seal. Check to see that it's copyrighted, then place it in the Lancaster article. Ah, you're writing? I'm updating lists. . . taking a small break from long articles for the moment. Happy Trails, --avnative 05:39, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

I like the Landsat image. Needs an identifier to let people know North is right, not up. I am concerned that the font size used is kinda small considering that the image will be shrank when placed on the page. What do you think? --Anon 06:00, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Great thinking. I like the Landsat too. We can orient the reader which way North is in the text that will accompany the image. My thought if we do shrink the image (thumbnail it) - leave a caption below instructing the reader to click it on to find Palmdale's location vis a vis LA, etc. Sounds good? --avnative 06:07, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Good enough for me. --Anon 06:17, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Desert rat

Absolutely priceless! In fact, I plan on distributing the link to a few rats I know! You should link it to the "unusual features" page. BTW...Ridge Route is a featured article!!! It's in the "Geography" section. This desert rat is hitting the sack. Talk to ya tomorrow!!! - Lucky 6.9 05:21, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Good news and bad news. Bad news: Someone turned this into a redirect. Good news: I went to the edit history, copied the article and "Desert rat" will live on at the BJAODN page! - Lucky 6.9 15:09, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, some guys are just stinkers. I got to thinking it wouldn't last long before it wound up as a VfD or a speedy delete. This is actually a better way of seeing it given the popularity of BJAODN. Kudos to you, sir! - Lucky 6.9 17:57, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Barnstar thanks!

Thank you so much for the Barnstar! - Lucky 6.9 07:09, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Support

Thank you very much for your support during my recent run for adminship. I appreciated it very much. If you would like to talk sometime, please drop me a note on my talk page or email me. Mike H 00:17, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your comment on my talk page the other day. I appreciate the support. :)I was going to reply at the time, but I think my computer must have crashed or something.

As far as the Bandit goes, I suspect that something more may well be done about it soon. Apparently there's other bandits going around adding similar garbage in other areas, and I'm seeing quite a few people start to speak up against these wretched substubs. Still, if you can - speak up! The more noise we can make, the better. Ambi 10:39, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Lancaster

I just put the finished info box on the article page. I'm still working on the Lancaster history section. I'll post it to my workzone for copy-editing before actually posting it to the article. How are Palmdale's history section, topo map, and photo's going? Let me know if you need anything. --Anon 08:05, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)

May

Hey there, You're welcome--you're right about Wanamaker's, but I'm not sure how to add that to the page, because the "New York City" there is for its headquarters, not its retail locations (couldn't quickly find info on where L&T stores are located). If you'd like to find out where L&T does business, .... :) --Lukobe 18:40, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Oh, and re "looks like you are an editorial 'polisher' and researcher, as I also am," you're spot-on--I used to work at Microsoft Encarta and am now a copyeditor at Amazon.com. --Lukobe 18:41, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hi, regarding breaking into copyediting, the first thing you might want to do is look for a group similar to this one: http://www.edsguild.org/ -- also, I'm sure there are more publishers with operations in L.A. than in Seattle, and I would encourage you to check them out. I myself got into this because I was over at Encarta doing indexing, and then finally managed to get transfered to proofreading. My temp agency was hiring for the job at Amazon, so it was really all a matter of luck. --Lukobe 21:20, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Amboy Crater

Yo, Av! Thanks for the nice welcome-home. FWIW, I just wrote a stub about Amboy Crater after reading about the Kelbaker Road shortcut to I-15 in one of the local tabloids last week. Take a look-see if you have a moment and if there's anything that you can add, please do so. I'll research it a bit more myself. I'm also thinking "Kelso Dunes" might make for an interesting future article :^) - Lucky 6.9 21:40, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Glamis and the Plank Road

Booyah! GREAT ideas!! How about the Yuma Territorial Prison while we're at it...? I may even tweak the existing US 80 article a bit. I wish I still had my copy of A Car In Every Garage. That's the excellent history book about the Auto Club and it had some pretty extensive coverage about the Plank Road. There's some mention of it in the Coachella Valley history book I got from the water district a few years back. It talks about the original surveying trips through the Imperial Valley for the All-American Canal. Good stuff. Oh, and the Amboy Crater article looks terrific! I knew you'd come through. Another red link bites the dust. Or the pahoehoe. :^) BTW, I did do an article on the Palm Springs Aerial Tram and recently expanded it somewhat. That is one damned fun ride, especially with the new cars. - Lucky 6.9 00:15, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Stockton

I'm actually a former Stocktonian -- I went to the Bay Area for college five years ago, and now I'm on the East Coast (going to more school). So I'm not as much help as you might have thought, as a Central Valley exile! ;) I actually stumbled across the lack-of-Stockton on the California page because I was adding information about the Stockton State Hospital to the Stockton, California page; I've done a lot of research on California State Hospitals and the first one was, by complete coincidence, in Stockton. Anyway, both of my parents still live in Stockton, so I do get back occasionally. I have no prejudices against it except that I prefer not to live there. ;) --Fastfission 04:33, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Tiburcio Vasquez

Howdy right back and you are very welcome. Re: wikifying dates, the relevant bit from Manual of Style: Do not link every occurrence of a word; simply linking the first time the word appears will usually be enough. ... For dates like 25 March 2004 wikify every time so that the date preference of the reader will be used. --Cfailde 09:20, 2004 Sep 20 (UTC)

See also July/August 2004 discussions here.

Newbie mistakes

I don't quite understand? You're suggesting I reword my notice at the top of my talk page? That's probably a good idea, but it took me a moment to figure out what you meant, and perhaps that's not what you meant! zoney ♣ talk 14:44, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your support and encouragement! I'll have a look at the issues you raised and see if I can help. zoney ♣ talk 14:54, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I don't see any particular problems with that user's edits in general. If you have specific issues, attempt to restore just those items, or raise just those items with the user or on the talk page.

Finally, what on earth are you up to with my talk page? :-)

zoney ♣ talk 15:11, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Christianity

and in some groups it is considered idolatry and not used in worship.

I'm afraid we can't take the easy way out in dealing with this addition you deleted. This is an easy revert, when we should be attempting to incorporate the POV it expresses. See talk for the page. Tom 18:21, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The only thing we have to do in my opinion is throw a bone to people who are going to be continually tempted to chip in their two cents because the cross is at the top of the page and they say, "Wait, that's not *my* Christianity!". Sheer entropy control is all I am after. If we can come up with something that will tend to stabilize the page, then we are making progress. I tried a non-specific reference that I thought might work. And I think maybe in this case a very brief, non-specific reference will satisfy people. If we say LDS and JW, then before we know it someone comes along and disagrees. The anon who made that edit will be back, and for two considerations, we need to be sure he is happy. 1) We want him as a Wikipedian. 2) We don't want to continually have to fight him. I don't want to be disagreeable, but could we do something a little more non-specific, but still accurate? Tom 20:50, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

McClatchy

Hi, Avnative. Thanks for your thoughtful note,

I had read much of the Wiki style guide and haven't seen anything about format for newspaper names, but maybe I missed it. About McClatchy, or my edits, I am less concerned with formatting than getting the names right. Thanks for adding more info on the newspapers.

I think I'm sounding terse and not meaning to. Maurreen 03:56, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hi, and thanks again. I think the company actually used to be named McClatchy Newspapers, but that it changed its name. But I'm not sure.

'Night! :)

Maurreen 04:43, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ridge route on main page

Congratulations on Ridge route getting on the main page! zoney ♣ talk 07:52, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Human

I have a short favor to ask of you. The Human discussion is getting strong, and I think it would help to lay our cards on the talbe so the "secularists" can see just how different is our point of view on just what is a human. But at the same time, I want to be able to get a "generic" (ha ha) religious view. In any case, would you take some time to drop by my user talk page and add your personally believed factual definition of what is a human. I appreciate it. Tom - Talk 14:58, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

VfD on Patty Walsh

You wrote: "Maybe another indication that some university students have a bit too much time on their hands." Could be, but my guess was that she didn't do it herself, but that it was the work of some guy who was trying to score points with her. When I listed it on VfD, I thought about adding, "OK, Romeo, you've done your bit and I hope the young lady was impressed, but now let the adults get back to building an encyclopedia." That seemed a little too frivolous for a VfD listing, though. :) JamesMLane 03:24, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You asked for it!

By gum, you got it. ENJOY! - Lucky 6.9 05:30, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

And while we're at it...

...take a look-see at this. Practically nothing historic on the Net so I wrote what I knew. Our task, therefore, is clear. Massive expansion! :^) - Lucky 6.9 06:22, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Slab City, eh? I love it! It shall be done!! Heber is one of the all-time weird places on earth as is San Luis Rio Colorado. Not as much fun as Los Algodones, but close. Never been to Tecate, but it sure seems like a natural to include here. Salton Sea could use some tweaking while we're at it. I'm half-tempted to write about another Howser subject, namely the Shoe Tree in Rice. Sadly, it is no longer with us as some idiot burned it to the ground. My dad noticed it recently as he takes 177 out to Laughlin when he and my mom go there. FWIW, Don Laughlin doesn't have an article either. Only met him a couple of times, but I like the guy. I'll sneak a peek at your new stuff later today...promise! Back to work for this boy. Take care. - Lucky 6.9 17:33, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

SpaceShipOne photos

Thanks for taking photos of SpaceShipOne flight 17P. Please upload them (if you haven't already), and link to them somewhere - Talk:SpaceShipOne flight 17P would be ideal - so we can decide what should go where. If you haven't already uploaded them, and hence chosen names for them, I suggest putting "17P" somewhere in the names, otherwise it all gets too confusing. 81.168.80.170 18:59, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Da Slabs!

Wow, did you really get photos of SpaceShipOne?!?!? Fantastic! I in the meantime did something a bit more pedestrian: Slab City. Thanks for your latest suggestion! BTW, the Vasquez articles are flat wonderful. - Lucky 6.9 03:57, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Who Do I Look Like? Rand McNally?

Salutations, Avnative!
We talked before re your Ridge Route article but I never checked out your user page until today. Like your chatty style for your user page. As a map junkie, I had to write to say I know where the Antelope Valley is, I having loved maps since I was a child. Just as you've been doing many SoCal articles, I've been working on Warren County, Ohio articles. I've posted a list at User:PedanticallySpeaking/Articles of what I've been working on. If I can help you in those areas, do let me know. Ave! PedanticallySpeaking 17:41, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

California, Here We Come!

Howdy, Avnative!
Since you admire the fellow from Stony Brook, I thought I'd let you know we have an alum of that institution here, User:ClockworkTroll, who I've exchanged pleasant messages with, and am likewise informing him of you. I got out my maps last night and was wondering who is your congressman out there? Does Bill Thomas's district reach that far south? Ave atque vale! PedanticallySpeaking 15:28, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

Asking for Your Vote

Salve, Avnative!
I nominated myself for adminship at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/PedanticallySpeaking2 and would appreciate your vote. Ave! PedanticallySpeaking 19:37, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing

Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:

Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
Multi-Licensing Guide
Free the Rambot Articles Project

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

Option 1

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR

Option 2

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

New section for Edwards Air Force Base

Hi, I saw that you did a lot of work on the EAFB article; thanks! I used to live in the AV and remember the rich aerospace history. In the same spirit I created a new section on the EAFB article about the shuttle landing operation. What do you think? I just wanted to run it by you since you seemed to of done so much work on the page already. Here is a link for convenience: Talk:Edwards Air Force Base Take care. Triddle 09:17, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Interested in an L.A.-area Wiki meetup?

It appears as though L.A. has never had a Wiki meetup. Would you be interested in attending such an event? If so, checkout User:Eric Shalov/Wikimeetup.

- Eric 20:08, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, ol' buddy!

Av, I am so glad that you are back that I can't express it. Thanks for coming out of "lurkdom," thanks for all the e-mails and thanks for your friendship. We have SoCal desert articles to write, my friend! Let's do 'em!! All the best, Lucky 6.9 04:29, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

SoCal WikiProject

Based upon the articles that you edit, you may be interested in the Southern California WikiProject (and its parent California WikiProject). Please take a look around the project's webpage and see if there is anything that interests you. If you have any comments or questions, please feel free to contact me. BlankVerse ∅ 08:55, 24 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

After your message and the one from User:Lucky 6.9, I removed the merge tag and did a little copy-editing to the Low Desert article. I may have to do some more editing. I thought that it was just a California term, but A Google search showed National Weather Service Tucson using it as well. And it's the title of an song by R.E.M.. BlankVerse ∅ 14:13, 1 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the compliment.

re: "Statement in Black": Just to depress myself, I have the Missing Wikipedians page on my watchlist. I created that my "Statement in Black" after seeing one very good editor take a WikiBreak, and then deciding that it wasn't worth returning after his WikiBreak was over. I added the other stuff about admins because around the same time I witnessed an admin deliberately bully another editor off of the Wikipedia. BlankVerse ∅ 09:45, 2 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The Accident was on ACH, not AFH?

I seem to remember that the accident with the JPL van going off the cliff was on Angeles Crest Highway, not Angeles Forest Highway. I drove by the site along ACH, which has more cliffs than does AFH. I also live in La Cañada, so I would know. I also wish that AFH/ACH be closed to any Antelope Valley traffic during rush hour (or they take Metrolink) as too many cars come down ACH and make traffic. Just looking at those cars, I can tell they aren't LC locals. --fpo 15:39, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

This article begs to differ. Just the angle of the crash, I swear it had to be ACH. --fpo 18:10, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

Okay, you win, I am sorry. I still do find it a bit difficult to believe that someone could crash off a moderately-sloped cliff of AFH while heading uphill. I could understand crashing going downhill along the hairpin turns of ACH.

KTLA's Bill Smith is cool. Nobody outside of here can pronounce La Cañada correctly. I heard that the fire started because on new homes being built?

Please don't play the NPOV card on me. When on trips, I go up Sierra Highway (never been on 14 north of Acton). I have a lot of respect for the land (Ansel is my desktop picture), and we both have to suffer Antonovich's rule. I just beg you guys not to speed down ACH through town.

I hope you don't mind my asking, but if you find yourself in the area of the Palmdale Metrolink station, I must ask you - Is there a fence separating the railroad tracks at that station?

Thank you --fpo 03:56, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

For ñ -

Click down below on the foreign characters when editing a page

Go to Character Map

With Num Lock on, hold down the Alt key and press 0241 --fpo 15:08, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

By the way, it's SCRRA, standing for Southern California Regional Rail Authority. The fence separates the Metrolink track (with the platform) from the Union Pacific tracks. However, I've always thought that the two railroads should run joint trackage from Palmdale Junction to Lancaster... --fpo 00:05, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

America the Beautiful

Thank you. Whatever perspective I have comes from being older (over 50) along with a healthy interest in history instilled by my parents and my public education, which was top-notch in those days. I am often either amused or annoyed at the lack of either interest or knowledge in anything that happened before the Clinton administration. One question I like to ask someone is, who is the first President they recall being aware of. That tells me something about their age bracket and their interest in such matters. In my case, the answer is Dwight Eisenhower. In my parents' case, it's Calvin Coolidge. It's a little scary to run into folks who don't remember Ronald Reagan's years, for example, or much worse, don't know much about those years. Of course, I don't know what it was like to live during the Depression or WWII, but I have at least some sense of it from listening to my parents talk about it. I'm also always interested in learning new facts, which is one reason why your piece caught my attention. I think I had a hand in trying to assert the Christian hymnal info some weeks back, and gave up on it because the yahoos kept reverting it. Good luck. :) Wahkeenah 19:22, 6 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It occurred to me on re-reading that the lack of reference to ATB in the 1929 encyclopedia, contrasted with the presence of those war-like songs, might say something about the views of the editor... but it might also provide a clue as to why the song has never succeeded in various efforts to make it the anthem. I have a hunch the song is just not as popular among the "masses" as we in the "intellectual elite" think it is, or should be. For a lame comparison, consider the popularity of two famous sci-fi series: "Star Trek" and "Star Wars". For all the critical acclaim for "Star Trek", and the someone looking-down-on "Star Wars" by the intellectuals, the fact remains that "Star Wars" has a much broader audience. No amount of hype is likely to change that. And I think that as much as the intellectuals snear at "The Star-Spangled Banner" for various reasons, its straightforward lyrics, which require no interpretation and have no subtlety, have resonated over the years more strongly with the general public, than the lyrics of "America the Beautiful", which might actually make the listener stop and think. Wahkeenah 19:58, 6 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]