Talk:List of One Piece episodes (seasons 1–8)

Navigation

Forgive me if I don't follow the formating for adding a post to this page. I don't edit wikipedia much because what I can do is limited not knowing the conventions or coding. I can never make myself learn the conventions used because I can't justify the effort considering how little I edit wikipedia. All I ask this one time is you look past my horrid formating to answer the question I am trying to pose. What happened to the navigation at the top of the page in the past four days. The history for the 26th of May had the one I'm referring to. It was organized and easy to use, the best out of any episode list I've seen on wikipedia, which for some reason has become my de facto source for watching a new anime or checking when episodes come out in japan, but has since been replaced with a standard list that in addition to not fitting on one screen length for most users takes longer to express less information. Just asking why it was removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.165.79 (talk) 18:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

It was not appropriate at all and violates our MoS. We do not use that sort of system of navigation. The standard menu is sufficient, and will be even more so when this article is cleaned up. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 18:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Just to say I agree with 68.205.165.79. The page was excellent, probably the best episode guide on Wikipedia. The standard menu is not clear enough in comparison. That’s a reel loss in term of clarity of information, and therefore, of time. -- [[::User:Loriquet|Loriquet]] ([[::User talk:Loriquet|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Loriquet|contribs]]) 02:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Loriquet (talk • contribs)

It was very appropriate. I'm not going to argue if it violates the MoS, but instead argue if it increases the effectiveness of navigation. What good is the MoS if it hinders an articles worth because it's impossible to navigate? The previous navigation provided a gateway to the rest of the article by organizing the arcs visually. The standard ToC is woefully inadequate in this context; there is nothing to indicate what episodes an arc comprises of or what saga it's a part of, and it doesn't make use of the horizontal space taken advantage of beautifully by the previous navigation. This is very non-intuitive and annoying to use. Qtcider (talk) 00:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

To both of you, no, it does not lose information, no the previous navigation was not a good thing. This is not a fansite, nor a personal webpage. Consistency is important between articles. The standard TOC is perfectly acceptable and provides the appropriate navigation. It is not impossible the navigate, the arcs are very likely to be stripped out, so that won't be an issue. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 01:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

You think in programmer instead of thinking in designer. A user doesn’t care if the MoS are violated or not. He just wants the information he needs as quickly as possible. That’s not the case here.

See, I have a large screen, using a high resolution, but, when I arrive on the page, I don’t see the menu entirely! Ergonomically speaking, that’s bad, really bad. Personally, I don’t want to go to the end of the page to see if new episodes have been released, if I can have the information on the top (and I don’t even talk about the problem of spoilers by navigating on the page!).

The real progress is, when someone has a good idea (here, a horizontal menu), to reproduce it. I think every episodes guides on Wikipedia should take example on what was the previous version of this one. Not the contrary…

PS: I’m French, so excuse me if I make some mistakes. [[::User:Loriquet|Loriquet]] ([[::User talk:Loriquet|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Loriquet|contribs]]) 21:02, 03 June 2008 (UTC)

Um, no, I think in both as I am both. The episode list is going to be completely reorganized, so it does not matter. The menu was not appropriate, now or then, nor do we do anything to attempt to hide spoilers. Wikipedia is not a spoiler free zone. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I was wondering what happened to the navigation menu as well. From what I can gather, the reason it was changed is because it violates the Manual of Style for Wikipedia, and for the sake of consistency, the navigation menu was removed. However! As several people have mentioned, people found the original menu much more ergonomically sound. The very first thing written on the Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style is that "Editors should follow [Wikipedia's Manual of Style], except where common sense and the occasional exception will improve an article." The article continues on, saying, "If an article has been stable in a given style, it should not be converted without a reason that goes beyond mere choice of style." This episode list article has been stable for quite some time already; many have enjoyed great benefit from the original format, and it has greater practical use than the currently existing version. Unless you can provide a case in which the format of the article created any threat other than stylistic choice, I see little reason not to return it to its original format. The entire reason that a Manual of Style was created is to make the article as easily approachable as possible, to prevent confusion. The original was much easier to navigate, and was a clear and well thought-out presentation of the information. I'm sure that you mean for the best, Collectonian, but if you would reconsider the changes to this article, I'm sure many will be grateful. -- Kkchong (talk) 21:23, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd actually agree that it worked for the page as it was, but the page should be changing dramatically soon - namely, the list will be broken up into several pages. Then the usual table of contents will work just fine. Doceirias (talk) 21:26, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Again, no, it will remain as it is, with a standard navigational menu. It was not appropriate, and the old menu did not improve the article at t all. Also, you are selectively quoting from completely unrelated sections of the MoS, which is a bad method for attempting to support your choice. The aritcle will be brought in line with the actual relevant MoS guideslines, including the project guidelines for episode lists. The MoS was also made for consistency, which the standard menu provides. There is nothing in the MoS at all that supports a hacked up menu over using one of the standard ones. It will be left in the standard format and the list clean up will continue.-- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

What I did was not "selective quoting". It is the very first thing shown at the top of the Manual of Style, reflecting an overriding philosophy that the Manual of Style represents. The claim that the original menu is not an improvement is unbased (and please be careful with your spelling--!); many comments that run before you claim that it functioned much better. The 'ease-of-use' of an article is determined by its readers, first and foremost. Do not forget, in serving the great Wikipedia project, that the ones Wikipedia is made for are its readers. Wikipedia is not made for the sake of the rule book; a set of rules has no use for, and cannot enjoy the knowledge provided by Wikipedia, unlike you and I. On another note, if the page will be changing dramatically, as Doceirias has mentioned, I await their change and will trust that they will provide the best they can for us; if there are any things that can be done to improve the new article, I will be glad to help. -- Kkchong (talk) 21:48, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree, no matter how many times these drones bring up policy (many times incorrectly) the fact remains: This article sucks. It's awful and almost entirely useless. Drakon Nacht (talk) 05:35, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

NOTE: For those looking for the original format with a Navigation bar and filler labeling, etc., I've moved it over to the Episode Guide at the One Piece Wikia. The article here at Wikipedia can now be improved to wikipedia's standards, while those that wish for more fan-related information can head on over there. Hopefully, this can satisfy everyone! (I've spent a lot of time on this) -- Kkchong (talk) 16:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

List organization

The "arcs" and "Saga" names here appear to be fan-created splits, and not actual official titles. This is not a valid way to split the list at all. The think the episodes need to be reorganized and resplit, preferably along simpler lines. Funimation is releasing the series in season sets, suggesting it does have official seasons. As such, I propose the list here be split like such:

• Season 1 (episodes 1-26)
• Season 2 (episodes 27-52)
• Season 3 (episodes 53-78)
• Season 4 (episodes 79-104)
• Season 5 (episodes 105-130)
• Season 6 (episodes 131-156)
• Season 7 (episodes 157-182)
• Season 8 (episodes 183-208)
• Season 9 (episodes 209-234)
• Season 10 (episodes 235-260)
• Season 11 (episodes 261-286)
• Season 12 (episodes 287-312)
• Season 13 (episodes 313-338)

And then two seasons can be combined into a single subpage, mimicking List of Naruto episodes.

Alternatively, we can split along the changing in opening themes:

• Episodes 1-47
• Episodes 48-116
• Episodes 117-168
• Episodes 169-206
• Episodes 207-263
• Episodes 264-279
• Episodes 279-283
• Episodes 284-325
• Episodes 326-

I believe organizing it around either of these methods will produce a cleaner, easier to navigate list and remove some of the most visible WP:OR on the page. Thoughts? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 01:37, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

We could also follow the Japanese releases, which did start breaking it down into chunks after a while - that does leave a very long first season, and might be a bit harder to verify, but it is closer to the story based arcs currently being used. Doceirias (talk) 01:41, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Good idea Collectonian, List of Naruto episodes seems like a fine precedent. Copy-paste the layout, then write over it. I'll help fill in any details if needed. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:50, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I've been conflicted for a long time on what the proper organizational tool is for separating into "seasons." List of Naruto episodes goes every 26 episodes, but I don't know whether that arbitrary number is a season, or the opening themes designate a season (which seems more logical, given that opening themes tend to characterize the content they're covering). However, if we went by opening seasons for the Naruto episodes, then we would be doing every 25 episodes per season, not every 26 episodes. The Bleach episodes at List of Bleach episodes go by this route, although they have the benefit of named and defined story arcs that double as seasons, similar to List of YuYu Hakusho episodes. That said, IGN defines one Naruto season as 26 episodes (see here for an example), so I guess that's official. And the DVD set boxes each house 13 episodes, so two boxes cover a season, so I guess it makes sense that way too. What makes this odd is that the Bleach episodes go by opening themes that clearly define story arcs (that are officially named), so I guess it's just a difference between series.

And to stop a similar thing from occurring here, I've also been irked for a while how the Naruto episodes were arbitrarily put into double season lists (List of Naruto episodes (seasons 1-2), List of Naruto episodes (seasons 3-4), etc.), and I have really big misgivings about fixing up and bringing List of Naruto episodes (seasons 5-6) to WP:FLC for a tougher crowd than the first two went through when it's subject to such an arbitrary split. I suggested a couple months ago that they could be split, but that discussion never really got off the ground. As such, I think we should consider splitting the respective episode lists into individual season pages (List of Naruto episodes (season 1), List of Naruto episodes (season 2), etc.). We'll lose two FLs, but they can be brought back to WP:FLC and passed with a small bit of cleanup and little fuss (and we'll end up with 4 FLs over two anyway :p). My main point in this rant is to avoid something similar happening here, and to make sure that individual season articles get created. I might start a discussion at Talk:List of Naruto episodes over this in a bit. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 09:18, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to comment at the discussion at Talk:List of Naruto episodes#Breaking the season lists, round two. Cheers, Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 09:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd be fine with individual season lists as well. I only suggested doubles because of Naruto :P (though sometimes I wish I'd done doubles with the Lassie episode list, and its 19 seasons LOL -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for barging in just like this, but I really disagree with this part. It is okay in the sense that arcs or sagas are not the official lists in the sense that they have not been presented officially, but in this way we should deny the idea of listing by opening-theme changes. Listing by arcs or themes is the same case, because the arcs are clearly set, their starting episodes brings up new challenges, and their ending episodes are often catarctic, after defeating their enemy or enemies. The arcs are loosely or not even connected to each other, in most of the cases, the starting episode of a new arc just suggests that some time passed. If we think about the usability of the list, now it is not very useful. I would choose the scheme like the Bleach's listings in this case. It is much more easy to use and it is logically edited... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.134.122.70 (talk) 03:29, 27 June 2008 (UTC) 05:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

It has already been denied. It is listed by actual official season. The arcs are not official and can not be used. Bleach's episode list isn't really a good model to use, as they need clean up as well. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 03:34, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

So, any final thoughts here? If we go by season, should we go with Funimation's season divisions, or the theme change divisions? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:31, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Theme change divisions were every bit as random as anything; I'd go with Funimation's. Doceirias (talk) 21:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Alrighty, lets start redoing the list into the seasons noted, so we can then get the US list merged in. Anyone want to join in the fun? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:49, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Toei has an Official "Season" List. It's on the Official Japanese R2 DVDs. It's also Collected in the "One Piece: Rainbow" Animation Guide. According to Rainbow and the DVD Releases, these are the Seasons, and the Titles Given to them:

• 1st Season: [Untitled] - 1 ~ 62
• 2nd Season: Entering The Grand Line Chapter - 63 ~ 77
• 3rd Season: Enter Chopper at the Winter Island Chapter - 78 ~ 92
• 4th Season: Arrival At Alabasta Chapter - 93 ~ 110
• 4th Season: Alabasta Kingdom Chapter - 111 ~ 130
• 5th Season: Rainbow's Edge Chapter - 131 ~ 143
• 6th Season: Sky Island ~ Skypiea Chapter - 144 ~ 172
• 6th Season: Sky Island ~ The Golden Bell Chapter - 173 ~ 195
• 7th Season: Escape! The Naval Fortress & The Foxy Pirate Crew Chapter - 196 ~ 228
• 8th Season: Water Seven Chapter - 229 ~ 263
• 9th Season: Enies Lobby Chapter - 264 ~ 278
• 9th Season: Special Chapter – Straw-Hat Theatre and The Straw-Hat Pirate Crew - 279 ~ 283
• 9th Season: Enies Lobby Chapter - 284 ~ 325
• 10th Season: Ice Hunters & Thriller Bark Chapter 326 ~ Present

Since the seasons are designated by Toei's DVD release, and Season 9 hadn't Started yet on DVD when Rainbow came out. I got the Season 9 info from CD Japan and their Cover Scans. Also, the Japanese DVD Release doesn't include the Straw-Hat Flashback eps with the Straw-Hat Theater shorts at the end with the 9th Season. While it says their 9th Season, the volume they come in is specially named, and doesn't count towards the numbering with the rest of the 9th Season DVDs. So S9 Volume 5 ends with Episode 278, and Volume 6 Picks up with 284. And since the DVDs aren't out of Enies Lobby yet, we don't know Exactly where the 10th season begins. however, the rest of the seasons seem to follow the Major story arcs, so it's a safe bet that Ice Hunters and Thriller Bark are Season 10. If anyone needs links, or References, CD Japan has all these DVDs, just look up "One Piece" in the DVD Category there. I can also Scan Rainbow if anyone needs that. I also think it's worthy to Note that FUNimation has yet to say how long they're going to run their "Seasons" for. So "Season 1" could have 2 "Voyages", or it could have 6. So until we know more in that area, we should Stick with Toei's Numbering. User:DemonRin 03:36, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll check the CD Japan page, however we usually do go with the English seasonal divisions where there are some. It seems Funimation already plans to redo the seasons, since Season 1 has 26 episodes from the first two box sets. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 15:58, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Like I said before though. We don't know Where FUNimation's DVD Sets will designate the Seasons. Like, when/where did they say the First season would only have 2 "Voyages" (Parts)? Until we know that, we should go with Toei's Numbering. it's the only confirmed Numbering system we have!! It's like, this "26-Episodes Per season" Idea was just someone Assuming things rather than fact.

Plus, Toei's "Season" listings Follow the Major Story arcs. Who's To say FUNimation won't do that too? That's what they're doing with Dragon Ball Z! User:DemonRin 17:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Assuming they will do the same with One Piece that they did with Dragon Ball Z is not any better than saying its an assumption that Funimation will do 26 episodes per season. I think its an acceptable compromise, as the only source for the claimed seasonal divisions by Toei is the listings at CD Japan. The One Piece site itself does not mention series, while Funimation hasn't finished the site to note such divisions. Do you have a more official source, or some other confirmable sources for the Toei divisions? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 01:02, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't assuming that's what they'd do. I just said that's what they could do, so we don't know yet. Taking that into account, The Toei list is the only official one we have. And yes, I do have a more verifiable source. I have the One Piece: Rainbow Databook. I can scan it Scratch that, I can't scan it well without tearing out the Pages. I can find scans online though. Give me a moment, and I'll post just the few relevant pages here. (Or I can scan mine if you don't mind Gutter Shadow) And here are the Relevant Pages: Page 01 Page 02 Page 03 Page 04 Page 05 Page 06 Page 07 Page 08 and All of the Season "Titles" I listed above are here too, my List above was translated by me. User:DemonRin 18:16, 19 June 2008 (UTC) Leave me alone sinbot, I DID Sign...

Alrighty. In the absence of an official season list from Funimation, I have regrouped the list around the Toei seasonal numbers (names were left out, as they aren't particularly necessary and would make the headers extremely long). Can you give me the ISBN of the databook so I can put it in as the source on the number of seasons?-- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 02:10, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how to Find it on the book itself, but the book's listing at Sasuga has it. Here User:DemonRin 19:26, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Anime Only ("Filler")

When an anime is made from a manga, the anime is produced faster and therefore the plot of the anime quickly catches up to the manga. It is therefore neccassary to pad the anime with extra plot so that the manga can catch up. This is called "filler". Its not that hard to read a manga and then watch an anime and realize that some of the stuff that's in the anime is not in the manga.

This is useful information. For example, me and my friends are currently watching the entire One Piece Series and we've agreed to skip over the filler. We use the valuable information on Wikipedia to help us decide which episodes are worth watching. Since this information has been repeatedly deleted from Wikipedia we are forced to use http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Episodes .

If you insist that filler is a subjective term, then let us use the term "Anime Only" or "Not in the Manga" or "Original for the Anime". But this is verifiable information, its not something that fans just made up.

32.97.110.142 (talk) 20:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

No. This is a list of the ANIME episodes. They are all "anime only." I'm glad you've turned to the wikia. A fansite like that is an appropriate location for such labeling, not here. Now please stop trying to add the labels back, as they are subjective and do not belong here at all, nor do any other substitute labels. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:15, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Even on the wikia we'd only allow them in the form of "category". I'll admit foremost that they are indeed not appropreate here and not worth mentioning. If you really want a list of fillers, any forum will happily supply you with it if you just ask the members nicely. ¬_¬' Angel Emfrbl (talk) 22:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Could you explain exactly why this label is not allowed? As I've explained, some episodes are based on content from the manga and some aren't. If you actually watched these animes you might realize that. You haven't demostrated to me that this is in any way subjective. If you can point me to a wikipedia style guide that specifically says that this is inappropriate, fine. But otherwise, stop being obsesive. Its not like it costs wikipedia money to have this useful information availible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.32.149 (talk) 06:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Its trivia and fancruft and it does not belong per project consensus and the episode list guidelines. Its not anything that belongs here, period. Check any of our featured anime lists. At best, we may mention that a season is a filler season when it can be properly sourced to a reliable source (which does not include you saying so, any fansites, nor a wikia). -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 06:54, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

For those willingly to bother looking it up... Supply the Jump Magazine issue refs (for those who actually know what these things are -_-' ) and they can go. Now I know the Ice hunter arc WAS mentioned in J.Mag but I'm not going to hunt this crazy thing down because I haven't the time to do this sort of thing anymore. Also I don't have a clue when the issue was out, but it was around about mid-Thriller Bark arc (manga wise).

If anyone knows which issue it is, but needs a quick lesson in how to write refs because I'm a gullible fool who has nothing better to do with the time I do have spare because it benefits wikipedia overall. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 19:58, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

To clarify, having a source does NOT mean a label can be added to every last episode as "filler" or "anime only" or any other such label. A source can be used to note in the lead that this season of episodes are filler episodes. That's the limit of filler labelling. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah if anyone really needs to be spoon fed on where to put it... That note usually goes somewhere at the top or the bottom of the page (but not in a trivia section, heaven forbid don't add a trivia section to a page after our crusade a few months back to get rid of them). Or just under the contents it involves if there is room for it there, its preferred. I shouldn't have to write this down though. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 20:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually I meant as part of the lead prose, same as with the Naruto episode lists. A single sentence. Nothing more, worked into the lead. Nothing in the table, or beyond. :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Lol. I don't go to the Naruto pages, but I do visit other pages. Most of the ones I visited have it in other places, so I presumed this is alright. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 07:52, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, Collectonian, but the original poster of this "Discussion" is right on. There is absolutely no need to discard the 'filler' or 'anime only' tags. Many people view these lists EXPLICITLY for that reason. Calling it 'subjective' and claiming it needs a 'source' is completely unnecessary, and quite frankly, redundant. Please stop removing the filler tags. -- [[::User:Devin3m|Devin3m]] ([[::User talk:Devin3m|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Devin3m|contribs]]) 01:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devin3m (talk • contribs)

No reason except the clear consensus established by the majority of editors on Wikipedia. If you want that info, go to the Wikia. It does not belong here. Doceirias (talk) 05:45, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

No, the tags do not belong. As Doceirias already noted, consensus by the whole of Wikipedia is that it does not. Its trivial fancruft that is better suited for the One Piece Wikia. Go there to find the filler/non-filler. We do not use such tags here. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 05:47, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Strickly speaking, that information is illrelevent sinc emost OP fans these days know whats filler and whats not. You really don't have to mention it at all. When I first came to wikipedia that wasn't the case and a lot still didn't. To mention it now days, its like dumbing it down. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 07:52, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Definitely! Once you become a fan, you automatically memorize all the information about the series. I applaud you on you insight. Why would a fan need Wikipedia to provide useful information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.210.39.120 (talk) 04:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is suppose to be an quick read on any one subject, its not asking to be a expert on the subject at hand. Anyone should be able to log onto ANY page and get a quick answer on things like "What is a Tiger". If your intereasted, your suppose to take wikipedia as a starting point - there are things elsewhere that can tell you more in-depth on the subject. In our case I can tell you that the main OP site Arlong Park, the OP Wikia and "Save One Piece" pretty much cover all the details on the show between them that a fan would really want to know with "Save One Piece" just catching all the loose bits on the 4Kids show that Arlong PArk and the OP Wikia doesn't have. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 07:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I just want to give a line here. The term filler episode has certain negative connotations to it, so including that term is a NPOV violation, rather than something less important as fancruft.--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 12:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Alternative to way to say which episode is filler

There's a debate here on whether a "filler" tag be added to episodes which are not based in the manga. Personally, I believe that including such a tag does not violate any "rules" wikipedia have. Yes, filler might be a term that is not official (not intended by producers to be called that way), but it is descriptive. And descriptive aspects are what Wikipedia is looking for. The real thing that should be debated is whether the "filler" term is known to most readers of this article or not. If it is not, then why not wiki-link the first "filler" tag to filler (media)? And as a final note to all who argue against the inclusion of filler tags: filler may be a fan term but our language is so dynamic that it can generate new words out of different sources. Who knows, the "filler" tag might have a Webster entry in the future.

Well, too much for my own arguments. Here is my alternative: Why not create a new column in the table which tells which manga chapters a certain episode is covering? If an episode is a filler, then we can just leave some note for that episode in that column. eStaRapapax ^{xapaparatse! exsatpaarpa!} 06:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Again, no, we do not mark any episodes as fillers, nor do we tie the manga chapters to episode lists. It violates the anime and manga MoS and the project's established consensus for the formatting and content of episode lists. Filler is a subjective term and a fan term that has no relevance here. It is not a notable aspect of the episodes. Again, that sort of information belongs in the Wikias, not Wikipedia. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 07:21, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree. One thing you can do is to say in the lead "episodes ?-? are not based in any manga chapter and were made by the anime staff".--Tintor2 (talk) 13:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Even that can only be said if it is actually sourcable to a reliable source(s). -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 15:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I concur: This information is best said in the lead, if and only if it is attributable to a reliable source. G.A.S 05:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Is there any source more reliable than the manga itself? Surely episodes marked as original anime stories or whatever could just be referenced to the volume of the manga in which the events depicted do not happen.

As an aside, the 'original' Bond films (by which I mean the story was written especially for the film, as opposed to an adaption) do not apparently need a reference to state that they are not adaptions - see octopussy - and I am not clear on why noting this quite important fact for episodes of an animated series is any more 'fancruft' than it is in the case of a blockbuster film. 82.27.194.127 (talk) 11:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC) - AL

That is incorrect. The statement is sourced in Octopussy in the production section, and in that case, its to note that while the film is technically based on a single book, it uses little in from the book. It is not a serial work, and thus a poor comparison. The One Piece anime series, as a whole, is based on the One Piece manga series. Minute details about changes, including adding new stories, is unnecessary and excessive detail, and unsourced. Note the film article you pointed to does NOT give a scene by scene breakdown of changes, it only gives a general overview. That's all that belongs here, and then only if its sourceable. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 19:07, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I see. I take back my aside then, with no regrets. Nevertheless, my actual statement regarding the fact that original anime material can be cross referenced with the volumes in which it would take place if, of course, it did take place still stands. It is not subjective nor original research to state that, say, the events of episode 57 did not take place in the work being adapted, as it is verifiable. In volume 12 of the One Piece manga, directly after leaving Logue Town the main characters move to the Reverse Mountain. 82.27.194.127 (talk) 11:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC) - AL

Maybe not, but it's also not notable, and unlikely to be sourceable (how many reliable sources actually take the time to document every little filler episode in a given series?). Even if it can be sourced, individual filler episodes don't merit mention as such. It's only when an entire arc spanning several episodes (or a whole season) is original to the anime that it might merit mention - once again, only if it can be sourced. —Dinoguy1000 20:25, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

As stated, it is in fact sourceable to the volumes of the manga itself. 82.27.194.127 (talk) 11:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC) - AL

No, it isn't. See below. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:12, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

(edit cnflict) It would still be inappropriate and excessive. It also isn't being neutral. Some people feel that episodes that are not directly based on something in the manga is "filler" and such a label implies it is also inferior. However, ALL of the One Piece anime episodes are, in fact, based on the manga. They use the characters, storylines, etc from the manga. Even those that are not directly based on a manga chapter, are in fact based on the manga base material irregardless of whether a specific story is. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe that the word 'filler' should be used because it is not neutral language (as you say it implies inferiority) and a fan-term so therefore inappropriate language for wikipedia, but a (unbolded) note that the episode is 'original anime material' or similar would much more tastefully express that information. You said that other works that have been adapted from source materials do not note specific changes but there are many in fact that do: The_Lord_of_the_Rings:_The_Fellowship_of_the_Ring (and the rest of the lord of the rings film trilogy), Harry_Potter_and_the_Goblet_of_Fire_(film) (and the other Harry Potters), Hannibal_Rising_(film) etc. These can perhaps be taken as precedents. 82.27.194.127 (talk) 11:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC) - AL

You making bad attempts at comparison by pointing to film articles based on a single book, which is not a valid comparison. This is an episode list, not a single article. Films have a different MoS and different content guidelines. As an aside, however, note that all three of those articles comparison sections are NOT sourced to the film nor the book, but on reliable third party sources and documentaries about the film. The only one that doesn't is the last, and it doesn't meet the Film MoS and is a low end Start class article.

Let's actually look at real comparables. List of Trinity Blood episodes - featured list based on novels; does not note rearranging of chapters nor changes. List of Bleach episodes (season 1), another featured list, no "filler" tags, just notes briefly in the lead that the set of episodes covers the first eight episodes. Ditto List of Bleach episodes (season 2). List of Gunslinger Girl episodes, again a featured list, no noting of filler/changes, only based on. And the ones most comparable to One Piece, List of Naruto episodes (seasons 1-2) and List of Naruto episodes (seasons 3-4). Note only the later notes anything about filler at all, and it does so very briefly with no tags on individual episodes. Differences between adaptations are covered solely in the primary article, not in this episode list. "original anime material" does not more tastefully express the information, it has the same negative connotations and is an obvious reword of "filler." Every last episode is "original anime material" regardless of specific scenes being from the anime. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:12, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

What happened with this? It used to be organized according to arc, which was much easier to navigate. It would be extremely helpful to tell us which ones are filler episodes. Also, all the bigwig 'editors' here need to think about the information that users want, and whether an arc/episode is filler or not is definitely one of them. Don't continue in this bad direction. Charlespeirce11 (talk) 01:32, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

The arc organization was not reliable, nor do we mark filler episodes. Read above. We don't organized information by the desires of a handful of fans, but following Wikipedia guidelines and policies, and only using verifiable methods. It is not a bad direction, it is the proper formatting and organization of an anime episode list. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 02:06, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Just want to mention towards the people that are saying that a label of "filler" has non-neutral and negative connotations. I noticed that the page also lists that 4kids released the original English dub of the episodes. Anyone that knows the quality of 4kids' work will agree that this statement also has negative connotations, because such a label implies that the dub is inferior to the work of other companies. It may be a fact, but it too has negative connotations like the word "filler". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.173.59.43 (talk) 07:14, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

How so? It is factual and sourcable that 4Kids released a dubbed version of the series in English, and it was the first North America release of the series. That isn't non-neutral to mention it. Non-neutral would be to add the implications and commentary saying that 4Kids work was inferior, rather than simply stating "the first English version was the 4Kids dub." It is also necessary to indicate which English titles are being given in the headers, as there are now two dubbed versions of the series, the original 4Kids one and the later Funimation. The language has been made extremely neutral, with no complaints about the 4Kids version allowed, except where neutrally expressed and very well sourced. Noting who released the series in English is not a negative connotation, is it a necessary and relevant part of any anime/manga article. Noting something is "filler" when the term is extremely subjective, non-neutral, and primarily used only by fans is not even close to be comparable to providing verifiable, fact based notes on who released the series. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 12:38, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

As has been said before, and why I didn't bother to mention it in my response, filler is not subjective. If the plot and story is in the manga, it is not filler. If the plot is not in the manga, it is filler. The source? The manga. You can cite everything in the manga as being in the manga; what's left is filler. It may be non-neutral, but it's still a fact. Call it anime only if you want - that's the exact same definition without these negative connotations of facts you seem to dislike. My point was that in the same way that if you tell a person "this episode is filler" they'll be more likely to dislike it, if you tell someone "4kids was the company in charge of the English dub of One Piece" they'll be more likely to dislike it. Both statements are probably true: they aren't "neutral" in the sense that they do inspire certain feelings. But both statements are also indisputable facts and in the same way that you tell people that 4kids did the dub, you should tell people what is from the manga and what is not. The article on filler on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filler_(media)#Anime_series) [EDIT: never mind. I see you "fixed" that too. I tried to find another site that defines it, but the only one I could is blacklisted and I can't post it. You're on your own for sources, I guess.] explains why it's not a subjective definition, despite the negative connotations. Filler is story that does not come out of the manga; it's that simple. Just because the word also implies other things doesn't change the factual nature of it. As an analogy, if I'm writing a story about a convict, and I say "He was in prison", I've stated a fact. Describing someone as "being in prison" has negative connotations, but it is nevertheless a fact about that person. If I were to say "He is a bad person", *then* I've made a subjective comment and not a factual one, but the prison statement is still just a fact despite what it may or may not imply. Long post, sorry, but I want to be clear and detailed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.173.59.43 (talk) 03:36, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is completely and totally subjective. The manga is not a valid source for declaring something is "anime only" or "filler" as it is a subjective decision that applies a false term. There is no verifiable nor reliable source defining filler, nor declaring any episodes filler. Again, these labels do NOT belong in episode lists and will not be added back. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 04:26, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you even read what you write? "The manga is not a valid source for declaring something that is "anime only"". Do we need to look at that again, a bit more closely? How is the manga not a source for this? You LOOK at the manga, and if the story is IN THE MANGA, then it is NOT anime only. The manga is a primary source here - there's nothing any MORE valid or accuarate. You can correlate each episode with the equivalent chapter(s) in the manga, UNLESS it is filler/anime only, because then it has NO chapter equivalent. How is the existence of something subjective? This is not a radical concept, nor is it confusing or subjective to anyone. However, as you're far more dedicated to being the minion of Wikipedia rather than aware of reality than I am or ever will be, you're right. They won't be added back. At least you stopped calling them non-neutral facts, at last. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.173.59.43 (talk) 05:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Ye, I do, and watch the tone. They are non-neutral labels, and no, you can't fully look at the manga and say "well this story is an anime only story" because you don't know the source of the story. It could have been a discard chapter from the writer, or a new concept based on the same chapter. To just declare something "anime only" implies that it has nothing to do with the manga, which is a false comment. To look at another series, lets look at the first two episodes of Chrono Crusade versus the manga. Now, only the second episode was really in the manga, however the first episode uses some elements from the first manga chapter, then basically adds in a new first case instead of starting with the one from the manga. Some might decide the first episode is an "anime only" event, however it was clearly based on the manga and inspired by a few scenes from the first chapter. So where are the verifiable sources to show that every episode people wish to call "filler" was not inspired by a single panel, remark, etc in the manga? At what point does it have no tie to th emanga? It is completely, and wholly subjective. Heck, ask on any well populated anime forum and you'll certainly see that people have varying ideas on what constitutes filler and the meaning of the term. It is a confusing, subjective, and useless label that adds little to no value or understanding of the series to the average person, which is who articles are written for, not the fans who nit pick over such minor details. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 05:21, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

See, now that's the kind of example that makes your position make sense. I've never seen dispute over filler (always seemed pretty cut and dry to me), and you kept claiming it like it was the most obvious fact ever. I wouldn't have responded as I did if your tone was not so supercilious that you had to be right before providing this example. I still disagree with you, but now I see your reasoning at least; all you needed to do was give an example like that rather than proclaiming that it was subjective repeatedly. Thanks for doing that and I'm sorry for my tone from before. Anyway, now that you've explained stuff, I'm done - that's what I wanted knowing that you weren't going to change your mind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.173.59.43 (talk) 05:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I think you are missing the point of the site a little here. Though the term "filler" may have a negative connotation, it is definitely worthwile to include information on each episode's basis in the manga. I used this list to navigate the series when I began watching. Information on the different arcs and which episodes were manga-based was very useful to me. As this list is now, it is much less so. Remember, at its core, the purpose of this site is to provide viewers with useful information. It would be a shame to ignore that just so we can make the list look more formal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.208.123.117 (talk • contribs) 11:00, July 4, 2008 (UTC)

No, we aren't missing the point of the site at all, you are. This, again, is not the One Piece fansite. The purpose of the site it is to provide verifiable, encyclopedic information to all audiences, not have stuff to feed fan desires irregardless of actual encyclopedic value. We also aim to have similar pages in a consistent format as it aids readers. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 17:27, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I suppose it's up to you to decide what has "encyclopedic value." My point here is that the information you removed does have value, and that you have lessened the value of the page by removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.208.123.117 (talk) 20:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

It only has value to a handful of fans, not the vast majority of readers. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:17, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I disagree, to the vast majority of people who visit this page, this information has value. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.208.123.117 (talk) 20:27, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

its so hard to use now

Why do we have to divide it into seasons? it was easier to find everything when it was divided into seperate arcs...and why did we combine the usa broadcast version with it? now its just...Really hard and weird to use.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.53.130.66 (talk) 03:56, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

The US broadcast is being merged in due to an AfD and in keeping with the MoS guidelines which does NOT separate the various languages into single episode lists. As for seasons, because it is a more accurate division. The arc names are fan creations not supported by any verifiable source. Regular television series use season articles, so using the same here does not somehow make it more difficult to use for the vast majority of readers who may have little to no knowledge of the series. Only die hard fans would even have a clue about arc names, so the season divisions is a far more useful and intuitive division for the vast majority of English readers. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 04:25, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Anyway, this is an organisation thing and not a 'filler' thing and isn't really in the right place. 82.27.194.127 (talk) 11:39, 21 June 2008 (UTC) - AL

It was my understanding that they anime didn't have "seasons" (or series as we call them in the UK) in Japan. Who decided how to split it up into seasons? eyeball226 (talk) 23:29, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

See above. The series does have official seasons/series in Japan. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 00:32, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that the term "season" provides no useful information here. Some "seasons" are separated by less than a week. The creation of these divisions seems completely arbitrary. By forcing this organization on One Piece, you've only made the list much more difficult to navigate. Anime series of this length must be organized by arc.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.208.123.117 (talk • contribs) 11:00, July 4, 2008 (UTC)

No, they don't "must" be anything. The arcs are fan creations, while the season divisions are the OFFICIAL seasons are declared by Toei. There isn't anything arbitrary about them. If you disagree with the seasons being useful, go complain to the company that made the series. Until the Funimation release is completed, we will use the official seasons. After that, we will revisit to see if the Funi seasons would be more appropriate to use. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 17:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

You're completely missing the point here. You're substituting a useful organizational method for one that isn't simply because it's official. This shouldn't be about the way Toei sells their DVDs, but about which would be most helpful to people visiting this page. The arc system is much more helpful because the Toei system is rather arbitrary. It's based on nothing more than how many episodes have passed since the last cutoff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.208.123.117 (talk) 20:08, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

No, it isn't. The arc system is only helpful to a small number of fans who even have a clue such arcs exist and have names. Seasons are a standard way of organizing television episode lists, and in the case of an anime series, where we do have seasons, it is the most neutral and verifiable method. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:19, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

When I first came to this page, I was not a fan of One Piece, but I found the arc system to be an easy to understand and effective way of organizing the episodes. I don't have a problem with keeping the information about the different seasons. I simply believe that the information about the different arcs should be included as well. I think all relevant information should be available to those viewing the site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.208.123.117 (talk) 20:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

We shall just have to agree to disagree, and the page will organized properly by seasons. Feel free to use the One Piece wikia page the old version was transwikied too, if you don't like this one anymore. Either way, please learn to sign your own posts. :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:45, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

A vote?

I would like to suggest that we take a vote on whether 'original anime material' is noted (and sourced to the one piece manga) or not. As I am not an editor, I cannot personally begin the vote as I am not sure of the protocol, but it is clear from looking at these comments that a variety of users appear to be arguing one point of view while just one argues the other (lots). If it is widely agreed by users that Collectonian is correct but no-one has felt the need to step up because Collectonian is arguing so well on her own, then perhaps that's okay, but otherwise it appears that she is in the minority despite strong argument. A vote, then? 82.27.194.127 (talk) 11:39, 21 June 2008 (UTC) - AL

There's no need for a vote, since Collectonian is *not* in the minority. She has the support of policy, guidelines, precedent, and project concensus, but don't expect every project member to step in and leave a word of support for her just to prove a point to you - if we did that, we'd never get any work done. ;) Read her above comment, in it she clearly states, with an example, just how problematic it can be identifying what is filler/original anime material (pick your preferred term) and why we don't bother doing so. —Dinoguy1000 16:27, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, we don't work by voting, but by consensus. The project is well aware of this discussion, so if I were arguing something that was unsupported, believe me they would say so. :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:37, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

As someone who has seen consensuses in wikipedia reached by vote I hope you can understand my confusion on the matter. As I stated, I am not aware of the protocol. 82.27.194.127 (talk) 23:37, 21 June 2008 (UTC) - AL

Generally, it shouldn't be a vote in the traditional sense, but weighing each argument to come to a conclusin. WP:CONSENSUS probably explains it better than I have. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 00:40, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Return to original design

I don't care if you re-add the 4Kids episode release date, but could you return this page to the way it used to look? It was much easier to find things that way. Flaming Mustang (talk) 06:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Again, no, as has already been discussed multiple times above. The list will remain in the proper format. The old design was transwikied over to the One Piece wiki if you wish to find it there. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 15:33, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Then shouldn't you provide a link to the trans-wikied article? RC-0722 ^361.0/1 19:34, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Someone linked to it above. It does not belong in the list itself. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:21, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

The site I trans-wikied it to is here, at the Episode Guide at the One Piece Wikia. -- Kkchong (talk) 03:42, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay collectonian, wikipedia should be easy to use and understand for the masses. The masses are *NOT* interested in this 'official seasons' approach to organizing this page. Organization by arc was much easier, the way it is now looks quite frankly retarded. It just makes it so much harder to use, everyone sensible will be happy if you just stopped having anything to do with this article. K thnx. Stylishman (talk) 16:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

No, the "masses" are not, only a handful of SPA fanboys. Get over it. It will be formatted per the guidelines, not per a few whining people. I'm not the only one who agrees with the new format, it has project consensus whether you like it or not. Just most of us ignore you guys rather than waste our fingers arguing with you. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 18:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that you should know that these "whiners" represent a minority on three levels: it contains only those who visit this page; of those, only the ones who take the effort to look at the discussion of this page; and finally, of those people, it contains only those that take the effort to edit the page and add a comment. The "whiners" may not only ones upset--they are just the only ones you can see. It seems, as well, that there are quite a few of these "whiners" (this discussion page has been expanding quite quickly since the last time I've checked it), so the actual populace of those unsatisfied may be rather large. Out of all these comments, I've yet to see a single comment from a user thanking the editors for the new layout. Though the saying goes, "Ten negative comments for every One positive", there isn't even one positive comment, other than from those directly involved in the new layout. Sometimes, pleasing the users may outweigh pleasing the rulebook. Who is this page for, in any case (For the users, or for the rulebook)? I ask this question honestly. -- Kkchong (talk) 03:42, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Its for all readers, not just fans, and done so inline with our guidelines and policies. And yeah, its usual only a handful of people who will complain, almost all of whom are non-editors. The new design has consensus from the project. Believe me, if it didn't it would have been reverted and other project members objecting. If the new design was not appropriate, actual established editors who are well versedin the guidelines would be arguing for it. They aren't. Only a few non-editors and SPAs are, and they are mostly arguing only from a case of WP:ILIKEIT. If we did everything based on such comments, we'd have a dozen links to every fansite in every article, tons of non-free images, pages upon pages of plot summary, with an article on every last episode giving a blow-by-blow of each episode's plot. We'd allow people to put whatever original research they want, and none of the pages would look consistent because people would be able to just do whatever they want. In the end, the new design is of more benefit to most readers, those who don't even realize they can edit a Wikipedia article or leave notes on the talk page. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 03:59, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Ah! Yes, if the site ever did get out of hand like that (inclusion of non-free images and pages and pages of plot summary), then changes should definitely be made. I think the original, however, was only an episode list, and did not contain excessive fan content such as what you've mentioned. There were a few I'd like to address, however. Though the debate seemed to have been settled in favor of its removal, "anime-only" is verifiable by research (that research being to go through the One Piece media of both graphic novel and animated formats). "Arcs", however, are less verifiable, other than by story analysis and such, and though they are immediately apparent when viewing the original subject media, there are no official titles or divisions of the episodes as such. You seem to be putting a lot of effort into this, Collectonian. By any chance, are you a fan of One Piece? -- Kkchong (talk) 04:19, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Removal is removal. Anime-only is not going to be added as a way around it. Its also factually false. Even episodes that follow the manga ares till anime only. All anime is manga, but manga is not anime. And no, not a fan at all. I've never seen it, read it, nor have any desire to. I'm just one of the hard working, and often abused, members of the Anime and manga project striving to have quality anime and manga articles, clean up the mess that many of our articles have become, and improve them within Wikipedia guidelines and standards. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 04:23, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Ah! If you haven't seen it, then please do! I think that would solve this entire problem. I personally felt completely indifferent towards it when I first saw it, and I thought of it as some "unrefined" child's show, but when I took the effort to sit down and watch it, it was amazing. I'm sure you'll love it! Watch it if you have the time, and don't let this dumb wiki page thing get in the way of your enjoyment. -- Kkchong (talk) 04:46, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

P.S. "Anime only" is perfectly applicable--if I wrote a novel about Bob's adventures at the Islands of Bali, and a company decided to animate it, and followed his adventures in Bali but decided to add a new venture into the Bahamas, then that Bahama fiasco only exists in the animation, and isn't be in the original novel. Hence the term, "Animation only", or in this case, "Anime only". I understand what you mean that all the anime is "anime only", but there is still a difference between the anime and manga that can only be so succinctly put in the same words, "anime only", though it does not hold the exact same meaning. But nevermind this--go watch it!

No, watching wouldn't "fix" anything. I take the same neutral point of view with other series I have watched/read and absolutely love. The plot doesn't really interest me, and skimming the summaries while working over this page confirmed it. I'm not much into comedic stuff. And no, anime only isn't applicable. All of the episodes are anime only. Every episode has scenes and words unique to it. I have yet to see a single anime adapted from an anime that was a word for word, scene for scene animation of a manga. Indeed, it would be impossible, as anime requires motion (well, except for those two horrible episodes of the Kare Kano anime that literally did just stick panels of manga on the screen with stick figures *shudder*). -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 05:01, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) While One Piece is one of the best shonen manga out there, the fact remains that anime pages on Wikipedia do not include information on which episodes are filler - and calling it "anime only" instead doesn't solve that. I realize that information comes in handy for some people, but for all the reasons that have been stated several times over on this talk page, that information really can't be added. Please go to a fan site for that information - it is readily available. Doceirias (talk) 05:03, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh! Yes, of course. I was just discussing whether "Anime Only" was verifiable--I don't really mind if it isn't added, since I'm already fine with it being taken out. =P And alright, Collectonian, if you're a busy person...just don't pass your judgment so easily! Comedy isn't the only thing One Piece is about, and a summary isn't the same as an experience. -- Kkchong (talk) 05:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

With over 500 manga volumes in my collection, the 20-30 more I buy per month, and what I'm reading for my library, I have to be at least somewhat selective. :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 06:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

4kid and funimation and original.

I was wondering if there should be a new artcile for the 4kids dub giving all episoe titles and summaries for that dub there and difference between the dub and original and any dvd releases. Then have original one use only hte funiamtion titles and the proper episode numbers rather than 4kids muck up and include all the funimation releases.--Andrewcrawford (talk) 19:50, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

No, there shouldn't. There already is one and per the AfD it is being merged back here. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:21, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

• • Well someone is goign to have a hard job serparting the 4kids parts out considering the merged quite a few epiosde totgether as well as skipped them, it bit daft merging so many dubs into one article the should either be serparate or not here at all —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrewcrawford (talk • contribs) 09:19, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Getting REALLY annoyed

OK the list here is barely usable. It sucks. I don't think we should change it because the Arcs and other useful information supposedly don't fit here. BUT WHY CANT I PUT A SIMPLE LINK TO A WEBSITE THAT DOES HAVE THAT INFORMATION???? That website has all kinds of valuable information that is DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE ARTICLE. Yet some WikiNazi thinks that this is his personal article and keeps making up some BS about how my link is a form of advertisement or some shit. There are NO ADS. It is another wiki site, and it is 100% ON TOPIC WITH USEFUL INFORMATION THAT EVERYONE KEEPS TRYING TO ADD TO THIS ARTICLE. Since he won't let his PERSONAL wiki site be altered with USEFUL INFORMATION then let me keep the link. I'm so sick of pedantic fools making wikipedia so useless and difficult to use. I get that this page should reflect wiki-standards but that link I added is 100% relevant and is far more justified than plenty of external links I've seen on other pages.The Callipygian (talk) 21:17, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Its already been explained umpteen times before. Links to wiki's are NOT valid links per WP:EL except for a few rare exeptions. Its a fansite and doesn't belong. Adding the link is spam. Ads do not mean it isn't self-advertisement. Also, cut out the incivility and personal attacks both here and on your personal page. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:23, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Links to Wikia, however, are acceptable, aren't they? I mean, we have a template for it. Doceirias (talk) 21:26, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Not per WP:EL. There is a list of acceptable wiki/wikias that can be linked to, but most do not meet EL requirements, including this one. Specifically WP:ELNO #2 "any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research" and #12 "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors. It may also fail "Restrictions on linking" #1, but I haven't checked it in depth to see if it has any copyvio stuff. Wikis that meet this criteria might also be added to Meta:Interwiki map." The template has been up for deletion twice, but kept because of those few Wikias which are considered acceptable ELs (like Memory Alpha). -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:31, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

YES they are. And this is ridiculous. Because there is some information that is USEFUL to people this person won't allow it because they didn't add it. Just look, nothing is allowed that Collectonian doesn't want. It's their own little sandbox and they just don't want to let the other kids play. We need this information and it's very helpful stuff. This isn't some crap about when luffy appeared in Shonen Jump #455 of Iron Man or something random. This is a site that has all the original air dates, story arcs, and other information that is VERY useful to fans and the uninitiated alike. This isn't "fansite" and I don't understand this person's undying determination to make Wikipedia as pedantic as possible when a quick view of my link shows that it fits this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Callipygian (talk • contribs) 21:37, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

No, they aren't. See above. It fails multiple EL guidelines. That link, in particular, also adds nothing new to the article that isn't already there, considering its the same thing, just arranged differently. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:42, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

The table is a mess

Seriously, look at it. For the first 13 episodes, we got 4Kids' dub title followed by the FUNi dub title, the original Japanese title, and the romanization of the riginal title. That's fine and all. Now, for the next dozen titles, we got the 4Kids name, whatever translation of the title some fansub used (which shouldn't be in this list in the first place, but eh) and the Japanese title with romaji, and then we switch over to the romaji followed by the fansubber translation followed by the original Japanese title. It looks horrible. Also, uh, can we please identify the first 13 episodes' "Dub Title/Original Title Translated to English" as "4Kids Dub Title/FUNimation Dub Title"? It's what they are, the FUNi titles just happen to be direct translations of the Japanese title as well. AdamantBMage (talk) 20:39, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

The list is in the process of a merge from the old US dub list, and a clean up/correction, so it will look mess for awhile yet -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:55, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Fansub titles have been checked for accuracy; doesn't really matter where the translation comes from when there is no official translation. Sometimes we translate, sometimes the people making the list don't speak Japanese and have to grab a title from wherever. They will, obviously, be corrected as the Funimation sets come out. I agree on the title adjustment - I don't think 4Kids/Funimation would be biased, simply accurate. Doceirias (talk) 21:36, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I had the headers as 4Kids/Funimation, but someone changed them because the Fun ones aren't all out yet. Blech, dealing with these ones that weren't dubbed at all is such a mess! Took me nearly an hour to match the episodes from the dub list here :-P For those without a dub, I just settled for a note at the top - any ideas for other ways to handle it, or do y'all think that's enough? I'm taking a nap break if someone more familiar with the series wants to check what I've done so far (eps 1-52). Also, the US dub list frequently has semi-better summaries, at least more than just one sentence, if someone wants to clean them up to fix names back to the non-dub ones?[1] -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:50, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

What about just "none" or "n/a" - and why does no 4Kids title result in the romanji taking its place? We can always change the headings for each season, by the way - using whatever headings are relevant. Definitely need 4Kids for the seasons they did, and Funimation when the titles are taken from them. Doceirias (talk) 22:05, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

For those that are doing it, its because the template is too smart for its good and ignored the blank English title field. For the ones like ep 39, where I've moved RTitle down to English title, it goes back to normal. I put NA in the ep number field, and will add unaired to English air date. :) Gonna try to do some more tonight...don't know if I'll get them all done, with 300+ eps, but will try to get more done. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 00:32, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that I'm the one that changed the headers, but it wasn't because the FUNi episodes haven't all been released yet, I was just making the headings consistent, and would have no bias to changing them back. BTW, if I read right, you guys said that we're listing the 4Kids, Funi, and random English translation titles for each episode... if this is the case (I'd check, but the computer I'm on is crap to the point it would literally take at least two minutes to fully load and render the article -_-;; ), I see no reason not to remove the unofficial translations, since we normally don't use them when we have one (or more) official ones. And on that tipoc, if I may inject a little POV, I'd like to see the Funi dub titles listed first, followed by the 4Kids titles... that would fix the problem when a given episode has no 4Kids title. —Dinoguy1000 06:01, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Funimation titles only exist for a handful of the episodes, and we're converting the unofficial translations as Funimation titles are released. That's why the titles weren't consistent. 4Kids dub titles only exist for a portion of the series, after which the format will change. Doceirias (talk) 06:06, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) - yeah, what Doceiras said :) Reversing the titles would help...except the 4Kids episodes came first, so putting them second would be confusing (and a little NPOV I think). We had the same issue with List of Tokyo Mew Mew episodes. As you can see, where the 4Kids eps ran out, the table format switched :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 06:11, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of which came first, keeping the accurate translations with the Japanese title seems more logical. Doceirias (talk) 06:26, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Great work, you guys. Just a note on the Arlong arc - I'm not very familiar with the 4Kids dub, so I don't know exactly what was done here, but I know a bunch of episodes were spliced together here, so the guide is thrown out of whack (which is why including the 4Kids dub titles in this list is somewhat of a problem - they didn't just dub the original episodes, they cut and spliced them so much the series ends up looking completely different episode-wise. AdamantBMage (talk) 16:33, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

When 4Kids hacks something, they really hack something, eh? I know they've skipped a bunch of episodes and I've been trying to carefully note where they combined several episodes, but I haven't found a single site actually noting them. If anyone has a link that could help, I'd appreciate it :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 17:30, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

How about have the 4kids stuff serpareate since it so mucked up formthe original it very hard to say what episodes are merged etc. I know oyu have already it getting merged but i think it goes to shows in this case it might not be possiable and 4kids dub is probally bet on it own article no one really does anything about it since it really hacked --Andrewcrawford (talk) 17:50, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

That is not an option. It already has its own article, and per AfD it must be merged here. We don't generally separate the Japanese and English episodes, even when they are hacked up. It taking hard work to get it merged isn't a reason not to do it, and it is fully possibly, just takes time. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 18:00, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

That when people who think wikipedia rules must be followed by stricitly cause problems there is option to leave but hay i aint going to say anything the one piece guide is looking dafter and dafter as more 4kids are merged, and i aint said anything about merging funimation i agree merge funimation but 4kids should have it own article because techincally it isnt one piece the way it is hacked, but you aint goign ot listen like a few others people i know there so determine to have it presiouly to wikipedia rules and no option for middle ground so go right ahead and mess it up Oh and no i aint having a dig at you or go at you just saying my opinions on wikipedia purists --Andrewcrawford (talk) 18:10, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Alrighty...but yes, you are really having a dig at me, as I am the one who nominated the other list for the AfD and would likely all under that "purist" group you are complaining about. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 18:15, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I found this through some googling: http://opguide.bravehost.com/episode_list.shtml I changed the episode numbers for the 4Kids dub as best as I could for season 1, but the episode titles are still a mess. Damn, what a hackjob they made of the series. AdamantBMage (talk) 18:30, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll use that as I work on the rest, and to add some notes. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 18:37, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, season 1 has correct titles, numbers and airdates now. Needs a ton of notes, and looks like ass, but that's 4Kids and their hackjob's fault. AdamantBMage (talk) 18:50, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, merging the two tables together has done nothing but make it look extremely cluttered and ugly. It would be better just to make a separate table for dub titles. The Splendiferous Gegiford (talk) 19:08, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Again, no. The table will get cleaned up some as work progresses, but it looks fine. Having TWO lists of such a huge serious would make this page just plain ridiculously long. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 19:36, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you in principal. But he has a point; it looks cluttered. Your current version http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_One_Piece_episodes&oldid=223621117 looks horribly in my browser (Opera9.50Beta/100%Zoom/1024PixelWidth) compared to my version http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_One_Piece_episodes&oldid=223620165. Though I admit, that it looks better at a higher resolution. Is there a specific guideline, how to handle this kinda issue? Goodraise (talk) 23:08, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

The dates should not wrap. Just let it be for now, please. I'd rather the priority be to get the merge done first and the data accurate, then we can deal with tweaking the layout. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 23:15, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Collectonian: let's not worry about what color to paint the bikeshed until we have the walls up. ;) —Dinoguy1000 23:49, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

This table is horrible. Surely it would be best to have this table for the original and Funimation episodes, and a seperate table for the 4kids episodes, especially because of all the merges 4kids did. And what about the titles for Jaya and Skypiea? We have two titles that are practically the same! I don't know why we don't just list the Funimation versions, as they are the official translations. -- HokageLuffy (talk) 11:31, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

First of all, it's not done yet! Second, it's not a TV-Guide. And Thrid the decision was made, as stated on the top of this very page, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_One_Piece_episodes_(US_TV_broadcast_edition). --Goodraise (talk) 11:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Fourth, whether you hate the 4Kids dub or not, it was the FIRST English release and they are still "official." If one were going to be dropped, it would have to be the Funimation, otherwise its being NPOV. Second, again as Goodraise has already noted, it is NOT done yet. Why not let the work finish before trashing it. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Now you're getting carried away. We can no more drop the Funimation titles than the 4Kids titles; both are equally official. Doceirias (talk) 20:10, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Psst...that was kinda my point :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Merge done

Merge complete, time to answer my question. :P --Goodraise (talk) 20:38, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Well i will give credit where credit is due..... From season 6 onwards the table is very good :) but seaosn 1-5 is really a mess and very hard ot understand.... since there no chance of a serpate page for the 4kids dub why not make two tables on the one page with japanese one used for funimation title and air dates and another tbale for the 4kids dub. This is my only opninion on it and i wont be making mroe comment unless spefically asked to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrewcrawford (talk • contribs) 20:49, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Two tables just isn't gonna work. The page is already too big. I'll play around with the layout some soonish, try a few options to see what works best. Quick question, did any of the Funi dubs air from before season 6, or only the later eps? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 22:01, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe they've aired any yet, but I'm sure they'll be trying to get their redub syndicated. Doceirias (talk) 23:20, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Funimaiton dub started at season 6 only. I dnt think there any plans in america to reair the older ones but i bnelieve australis is.

--Andrewcrawford (talk) 09:22, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I was looking at the naruto list of episode and it seems ot have a page for each few seasons, if there was a page for eahc two seaosn of one piece them maybe you could do two tables???--Andrewcrawford (talk) 13:45, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

No, no, and no. There will NOT be two separate tables, period. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 14:30, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

And besides that, there has been some limited discussion on redoing Naruto's seasons so that each page covers only one season. —Dinoguy1000 17:46, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

The list acutally looks reasonable now it much clearer and easy to understand but i think maybe the dub colum should be renamed 4kids dub number? just so it knownw it 4kids dub numebr and not funimaiton.--Andrewcrawford (talk) 09:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC) edit i should meantion that onyl seaosn 1 is much clearly if seaosn 205 are done the same the 4kids,funimaiton and original will at leas tbe understandable. some of the english airdate havent been added i noticed two epsiode aired in australia first so they should be added.--Andrewcrawford (talk) 10:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Fix that and removed the word dub from after Funimation, since those are the titles for both version, presumably. There's a lot of confusion throughout the list, however; lots of notes saying the "dub" combined when they mean the 4Kids dub. This simply isn't accurate. And I can't even work out what the hell is going on with Seasons 7 and up, which have a Dub title mentioned, but only one English title listed. Doceirias (talk) 10:12, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

The 4Kids dub stopped at the end of season 6 5, so after that it's just FUNi's stuff. This is mentioned (more-or-less) in the lead. —Dinoguy1000 21:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

So why are we still listing two titles in the headers when there's only one in the actual fields? Doceirias (talk) 22:02, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Probably because no one's bothered to update them yet. I changed them all to just say "Title", since FUNi's dub is ongoing and I don't feel like updating a header every time they finish a season. —Dinoguy1000 22:05, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, see Season 1 for one possible option - 3 rows on the titles that have both 4Kids and Funi dubs. The pro here is that each title has a distinct appearance and are on their own line. The con is that it makes the title row's tall, but the rest just has single line content, which may be less visually appealing. Thoughts? (please let discussion go before reverting for ease of discussion). -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 00:37, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Looks good to me. The [n 1] is wrapping onto the next line on episode 10, though. And we might want to break this list up onto several pages before continuing to tinker. Slow ass loads getting on my nerves. Doceirias (talk) 00:55, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I know the feeling. I debated doing that as well, now that the English stuff is merged in. The only problem with doing it now is that if we then decide to go with the Funi seasons later, we'll have to redo them. If there is agreement to make season pages, though, I can make the necessary ep list hack so we can then transclude the lists (sans summaries) here. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 01:09, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Won't kill us to redo the pages if we decide to change. Not sure I understand a word of that last sentence, though. Doceirias (talk) 01:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Take a look at the code of List of Lassie episodes to see what I mean on the transclusion (then the source of List of Lassie episodes (season 1). Its become a standard in the TV project, and something worth incorporating here for those few series that do need multiple episode lists. With the transclusion method, only one actual episode list is maintained, instead of two. :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 01:27, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Seasons

I haven't been on wikipedia for a while so i didn't read the discussion pages, but why are episodes divided into seasons instead of arcs or sagas? Do you know how many episodes are in a one piece season, especially if you include the filler episodes?--Sanji_1990 (talk) 16:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

See the discussion above #List organization. Sagas/arcs are primarily fan creations and not a sourcable, valid division. The seasons are the official season divisions per Toei. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:38, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Why has this page been ruined?

Im sorry for not putting this in one of the other topics but i don't really use this discussion thing much and I'm not sure about how it works. FILLER is not a derogatory word, it is simply a word used to denote variation from the original manga, everyone who watches anime knows this and treats the word as such. If it helped you could colour code the fillers and put a label at the bottom. The label may not even include the word filler, just an explanation of the differences. It just needs to be immediately obvious when looking through the list which ones are which, because in my experience the main reason people browse this page is to check which episodes are fillers

Also why is it arranged in seasons and not arcs? Seasons are irrelevant for a series this length, and it makes it really hard to navigate, it makes the ENTIRE page nearly USELESS. Im sorry for such strong language but that is in effect what has happened. Luckily I have finished watching this series, but my friends who have just started watching one piece have been forced onto other pages because this one is so useless. Doesn't that defeat the object of wikipedia? Could a button be included in the page to change it from season view to arc view? This would solve all the problems if it were possible. I understand the need for seasons with dvds and stuff coming out, but both are necessary so you need to find some way to display both, otherwise you might as well just delete the whole page.82.69.83.28 (talk) 14:41, 22 July 2008 (UTC)