Talk:Mohawk people

Iron Workers

Anyone know any thing?

They (we), work all over Canada and the U.S. Do research into unionised construction or famous architectural landmarks across north america.

Note carefully: it is widely known that Mohawk were involved as labor in steel construction. This is only half the story. My Mohawk Mother married a Blackfoot who migrated north to Canada and in part through mother's tribal connections established a large construction company that used steel to build dams and gravel to build roads. With mother's direction, we moved into buildings, houses and small suburbs. Mother helped to sell one of two huge suburbs used for Disney World employees in Florida. The point is this: Mohawk are people with business ambitions. We do not simply swing bar. My concern is that a stereotyped image of our people implies we are not good enough for any other steel connections. This is simply not true.

Look at that, eh. "Iron" replaced with "steel" to accurately describe the minerals and metals used to manufacture modern bars.

Iron and Steel Workers

Getting 'steely' about what we do!

Say a Montreal Iron Worker comes to Vancouver to work steel. Does he or she have to go back to college? Do we keep that displaced job title? Two legitimate questions arising from a potentially racist identity. This author prefers clear communication that avoids hurt and disgrace, and feels (no doubt with many others) that this is a legitimate concern. Perhaps the best course for Wikipedia is to change that title to "Iron and Steel Workers", and change every internal document use of iron into "steel". We do live in the 21st century after all. This will respect the noted history involving the deaths of many Mohawk "iron workers" early in the last century, while giving our people credit for their contribution to current construction! comment added by 24.84.2.75 (talk) 18:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)Little Hawk

Removed

Can someone clarify the following sentence: One large group of Mohawks, who were expelled by the United States as traitors were given land by the British Governor Craig and imposed to French speaking Quebecois who were refused new land because of not being English.? I would do it, but I don't understand what it's trying to say. What does "imposed to" mean? — Pburka 1 July 2005 02:31 (UTC)

== clarification == Who is Craig? Governor Frederick Haldimand intercepted the only "large group" migration of Mohawk and other Haudenosaunee citizens into Canada, giving them almost 1 million acres in Ontario (today reduced to 45,000 acres). The relationship between 'visiting' Caucasians and 'indigenous' Americans is complex and includes many diverse, competitive colonial groups stealing over 5 million square kilometeres of land. Please refer to http://www.tolatsga.org/iro.html where you will find detailed the centuries of forced displacement of Mohawk north from present New York State into present Canada well explained. The Mohawk Nation was settled for at least 1,000 years in up state New York - formal relations existed with many bordering Nations. People often confuse Mohawk physical presence with the presence of any of six American Nations making up the Haudenosaunee democracy. The Haudenosaunee territories included many less politically sophisticated Nations in the present states of Minesota south to Missouri, east to Virgina, north to New York. Caucasian occupiers engaging military in their attempts to secure American land, often 'confused' the hostility of subject nations and retaliated against the Haudenosaunee. In the 1700's Haudenosaunee Chief Joseph Brant, had earned a reputation for enforcing treaty agreements at a time when colonials were busier breaking than forming agreements. Brant escaping caucasian attacks in retailiation for the aggression of the Mingo Nation, hundreds of Kilometers west and south in the Ohio Valley, accepted a parcel of land called Six Nations in present Ontario. Chief Brant helped fortify Canada against early Caucasian invasions from the south. For two centuries following the creation of Six Nations, a northern outpost for the Haudenosaunee territories, Chief Brant's community became increasingly important. In mid-late 1800's Caucasian influx into New York State became (according to the Caucasian administration there) "unmanageable". Essentially, hoards of migrating Cancasians poured into New York state, bypassing arranged settlement offices and pushing the largely peaceful Mohawk off of their settled lands into Canada. Canada had established Six Nations to manage earlier migration, but the new influx was far too massive for one reservation, so many smaller reservations were setup along the St. Lawrence. Great Lakes reservations were also used. All of these reservations were placed on the Canada US border. In most reservations a previous small Mohawk presence had been established around Jesuit missions. French settlers in some areas tolerated Mohawk who peacefully cleared small plots where they live today, like the Mohawk in New York and Vermont. In most areas, Mohawk were not tolerated, and the colonial 'encampment' policy was the outcome for the majority. ... Incidentally, and unfortunately it was in part unfounded Jesuit fear of Mohawk potential involvement in scalping of missionaries and settlers in the Ohio Valley a half Century before Brant's migration that began forcing the six Nations of the Haudenosaunee north. In addition, Mohawk respect of the Haudenosaunee, dictated that they avoid further stressing their western American allies. Caucasian intolerance of pre-existing Haudenosaunee democracy coupled with expanding colonial competition worked together to squeeze the once vast Mohawk territories into a handful of miniscule reservations. ... I hope this broader snapshot helps clarify your rather vaguely stated issue involving Caucasian and American citizens of North America. Feel free to use this paragraph. 24.84.2.75 (talk) 21:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC)Little Hawk

I have removed the latter half of this sentence as it makes no sense. Morgan Leigh 03:47, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

This sentence, even in revised form, seems to indicate that the Mohawks of Kanesatake, Kahnawake, etc. only arrived after the British conquest. But the article on [Kateri] (beatified 17th C catholic Mohawk) says that she lived in Kahnawake in the 1680's. I always thought Kahnawake was the result of Jesuit proselytising in the Mohawk valley. So the Craig reference seems very wrong - I am removing it for the moment - besides being couched in racist terms ("British Governor Craig," "imposed to Francophone Quebecois" etc.), clearly a holdover from racial tensions in 1990 over the Jacques Cartier Bridge blockade. Jackmitchell

Mohawk warrior society flag

The flag that was briefly at the top of this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mohawk-flag.jpg / http://crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ca_mohak.html) is representative of the Mohawk warrior society, and not the Mohawk community as a whole. The individual Haudenosaunee nations' flags are variants of the Haudenosaunee nation's flag: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hauflag.png . The St. Regis band council probably has its own flag as well. There is nothing wrong with putting the flag of the Warrior society in the article next to text about warrior societies, but considering there isn't even mention of Haudenosaunee warrior societies on wikipedia yet, I think that should wait - putting the warrior society flag on this article gives a very wrong impression.

Point taken; thanks for taking the time. El_C 11:24, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

The Mohawk Warrior society is a known terrorist organization in Canada. They are responsible for the death of Corporal Marcel Lemay and a seventy-one-year-old World War II veteran.

Congress of Vienna did not happen in 1837

"The Mohawk Nation, as part of the Iroquois Confederacy, were signatories to the treaties concluding the Congress of Vienna in 1837.". Congress of Vienna took place in 1814-15. I doubt whether any Native Americans were present in Vienna because the congress took no decisions on any American borders. This sentence needs changing anyway because the date is obviously wrong. I would suggest deleting it and rephrasing the next "five years later" setence. I suspect that if the Mohawks were present at any European treaty negociations it must have been the Treaty of Ghent of 1814 which ended the War of 1812. Great Britain tried to create an Idian buffor state and therefore could have included some Native Americans in its delegtion. However, I cannot find a cource confirming this, also. Friendly Neighbour 19:42, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I corrected the section as this "facts" are almost certainly not true, and the congress date is evidently wrong. Friendly Neighbour 06:02, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Nope. The Congress began in 1814-15, but its endless meetings took place for years and its final documents were signed in 1837, when among other things the title of Holy Roman Emperor was done away with and the title of Austrian Emperor endorsed as a sop to retain the dynastic dignity of the former holders of the HRE title, the Habsburgs (by said document; they'd created the title themselves in 1804 but it was not recognized as such, formally, until the closing of the CoV) and various German duchies were elevated to kingdoms, or merged into larger units. The Congress functioned something like the League of Nations, though less formally so, from 1815-1837; but 1837 was definitely the final year of the Congress, and its summation (according to A.J.P. Taylor anyway, as well as Colin McEvedy).Skookum1 23:03, 17 June 2006 (UTC) By the way where I first heard this was during colour-commentary to the Oka Crisis....

i like monkeys

Mohawk Contributions To Modern Society

Can someone inform me if people belonging to the Mohawk nation were employed as construction workers on tall buildings? I have heard a story that they were chosen for this task because they possessed the ability to work at great heights without vertigo or acrophobia being an issue. If someone can veryify this and add a piece to this effect to the article, this may be welcome. Perhaps if there are members of the Mohawk nation themselves who could verify this (possibly even some of those putative former construction workers?) then this would add considerable weight to what I have heard. Calilasseia 21:59, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Yup.[1]. If someone wants to expand from this, that would be great. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 01:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 20:30, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

POV issues

Almost too many to list and sometimes I think it's a question of petulant vandalism, as in the residential school section; much of this article is POV in tone and needs de-POVizing....also the formal governments of the Mohawk should be articled separately; this by its title (small-n) is a "people"/ethno article properly.Skookum1 (talk) 22:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

One point definitely needs the revision due to POV: Residential Schools: "The school was conducted in malice and travesty methods, and many abuse issues came to light including Mohawk children being punished for speaking Mohawk language to one another." First, to clarify: I'm Cajun French, and I would find this sentence absolutely meaningless in reference to whatever harsh measures were used to force Cajun French out of Southern Louisiana, so this means even less to me when applied to the history of a people I've not descended from. Whatever "malice/travesty" needs specific documentation on what was done to the children that was evil. Moreover, if it went beyond the normal school punishments of the time, that needs documentation. Doing research on my own family's school history from the 1920s on, I know that various forms of beating (spanking, paddles, switches, belts, rulers over the hands) children, both in school and out of school, for breaking school rules, was the norm. (Along with dunce caps, forcing children to kneel on sacks of rice, washing mouths out with soap, and the concept of the Teacher being infallible, so you cannot possibly stand up against them.) I know of at least one case where a bull whip was used on a "protestant" bully in an all white school, by the teacher (Laura Ingalls Wilder--Farmer Boy(?)). Just present what beatings took place, and where it went beyond the norm for school punishment. Most people can figure out if it was evil or not on their own.

Besides, the link to travesty implies strip teases and cross-dressing, which ought to have nothing to do with school misconduct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DragonSlaveII (talk • contribs) 04:15, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

To make this worthy of note, I don't think you need to show that the punishments used were beyond those usually applied in contemporary schools; you would just need to show that the punishments had the specific purpose of altering the language spoken by the students. --Jfruh (talk) 22:55, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Skyscrapers

I haven't added citation yet, but here's some generally credible sources: The Smithsonian institute: http://www.sites.si.edu/exhibitions/exhibits/booming/main.htm http://www.nmai.si.edu/press/releases/2002_04_15_Booming_Out.html NPR: http://www.npr.org/programs/lnfsound/stories/020701.steel.html Book: http://books.google.com/books?id=eGXeFCkTmlgC&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=mohawk+skyscrapers&source=web&ots=4Nh6nE8cZl&sig=KbXhqmjqgBA1KEE8jMGbDQ_a2KA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result —Preceding unsigned comment added by DragonSlaveII (talk • contribs) 04:28, 29 August 2008 (UTC)