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Merges, Round Two

Now that all of the merges from above are either done or closed (san Rin which will be done today), I figured it was time to go through the next round! So please weigh in on whether the following should be merged to this list or if you feel they are notable enough to have their own articles.

Kagura (InuYasha)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Resolved
 – Merged per consensus on November 25, 2008
That is why we are having merge discussions. If all there is to say about a character is the plot, they have no real world notability and should not have an article and should be merged to the appropriate lists. Their role in the series is irrelevant. If you look at any GA character articles, you will see that they do have third party coverage, not just plot. Some GA character articles include: Himura Kenshin, Sasuke Uchiha, Sagara Sanosuke, and Belldandy. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 15:31, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I added a link to the official website for Inuyasha. http://www.viz.com/inuyasha/characters_naraku_group.php Do we need to add in citations to exactly what page and manga issue every single fact about her is from, as well as every single one she has ever appeared in? Do you need links to reviews mentioning her in Anime and/or Manga review sites wikipedia counts as valid for references? Does the official site selling it count as a reliable, third party sources, or is that considered first party? Would an official character book published about the series in Japan that mentions her, count? And if an article keeps too long, don't you usually stick information on another page? You only need to combine characters when there isn't much about them, but if they got enough information for their own article, then I say let them have it. I still vote Keep. Dream Focus (talk) 07:00, 3 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Official websites and character books are not third-party. Thye can be used for references, but not to establish notability. Characters are combined when they have no notability, not because of a lack of information. If the information is that long, its likely because too much minor plot information is being included and needs to be cut down. Splitting is done only if its so long while containing valuable information, not every minor detail (and her's has lots of extraneous details). And, yes, every statement made must be properly referenced to the manga, anime, or another reliable source, as seen in those articles I mentioned earlier. If Kagura's article can not be brought to that standard, it should be merged. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 13:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not at all. Most of it was just repetitive or excessive detail and OR about her attacks. Merged quite easily. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 17:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That was changed to "The Great Dog Demon" in the list, which is what he is called in the manga and anime anyway. In his entry in the list, it uses Taishō for the Japanese part. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 03:37, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What I meant was the one below this one says "Inu no Taishou". わwaらraうu Smile! 04:37, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No need to change it now, it was just using what the article was using. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 17:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The character is featured in manga, anime, movies, and I believe in the video games as well. I believe being featured in many different places, makes you notable enough for your own article under the rules. Dream Focus (talk) 13:44, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually no, it doesn't, when its all the same series, and not by itself. There must be significant coverage in reliable, third party sources, and really if we can't make a good conception/creation section and a good reception section (both well sourced), there is no need to have her separate at all. If a character article will never be more than a plot summary, it should be merged to a list. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 16:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Inu no Taishou

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Resolved
 – Merged to List of InuYasha characters
Good question. I haven't seen the films, but in the anime he was either referred to as "X's father" or the Great Dog Demon. Not sure what he was called in the manga. Can check some volumes at the library if no one else can answer it. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 20:01, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I only have a few volumes, and I believe all of them are past volume 10. He was usually mentioned in the earlier volumes, when InuYasha had just recently awoken, so I'm not sure if he's there, but I'll check through them to make sure. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 20:06, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Update: I check through them, but he didn't come up. It'd be great if you could get them from the library, though! Another thing I noticed is names that use ō and such. In the volumes I own, Totosai is spelled Tōtō-sai and I believe Tōtōsai in some parts...The manga translation was never incredibly good (there are mistakes throughout the series, and I don't get how the editor missed them), not to mention in one volume there is an empty speech bubble. So, there seems to be some consistency problems...Once all the merges are done, it might be a good idea to make a find someone who owns all of the volumes on the Anime/Manga Wikiproject discussion page. The most current is probably the most accurate, WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 20:34, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Izayoi

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Resolved
 – Merged per consensus on November 25, 2008
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Ryūkotsusei

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Resolved
 – Merged to List of InuYasha characters
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Menomaru

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Resolved
 – Redirected to InuYasha the Movie: Affections Touching Across Time; plot elements and voice credits already in film article, so not thing really to merge.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hyoga

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Resolved
 – Redirected to InuYasha the Movie: Affections Touching Across Time; plot elements and voice credits already in film article, so not thing really to merge.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hosenki (InuYasha)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Resolved
 – Merged per consensus on November 13, 2008
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Four War Gods

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Resolved
 – Redirected to InuYasha the Movie: Fire on the Mystic Island; plot summary already appears to have been merged
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Jinenji

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Resolved
 – Merged per consensus on November 13, 2008
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Shako (InuYasha)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Resolved
 – Deleted through redirect to Sango's article.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Ah-uh a family member or a pet?

I'm curious about the sentence "thus indicating that she considers Ah-Un to be a part of the family on the same level as herself and Jaken." She doesn't talk to it that often. Wouldn't she just consider it a pet, like a little girl talking to a horse, dog, or cat? I didn't read the manga chapters that were covered by the anime, so I'm not sure if there was some additional character development there I didn't see. Dream Focus (talk) 08:29, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wanted to remove that bit, and I'll do so now. You are correct; she doesn't do much to indicate whether Ah-Un is more of a pet or a member. We don't even know how she considers herself in relation to Jaken--she could consider herself more of a family member or less. I'm guessing if she had a pet dog, she would have probably still said something along those lines. And, of course, there is always the problem of translation. InuYasha's was never that good. Good catch! WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 13:41, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt Rin considers Ah-Uh to be a dog. She talks to him the same as she does Jaken (just lest often). Much like Sango and Kirara, as Ah-Uh is a demon and seems to be depicted as being capable of making his own decisions. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 15:11, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's not necessarily that she thinks of him as a dog, but the sentence itself is original research. As much as he seems to be intelligent, many children talk to pets as if they were a human. However, we don't have sources that say anything regarding her feelings on Ah-Un, and at most we know she considers him part of their family, just not on what level. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 20:10, 3 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Akago is called "the infant" in the official English translation of the Inuyasha manga

I notice someone had changed Akago's name to "the infant", and Googled around to see what it mean. The website http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Akago explains it quite well. Akago is called "the infant" in the official English translation of the Inuyasha manga, so I agree with the editor's change. Dream Focus (talk) 09:40, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. We're trying to get the InuYasha articles in compliance with the MoS by fixing them up so they use the official English names instead of continuing to use a mix of English and the often fan preferred romaji names. So will probably see more such changes over the coming days. :) -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 09:45, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why did Inuyasha loose interest in the jewel?

"InuYasha initially desires the Shikon Jewel so he may become a full demon, though he changes his mind after discovering the evils of the jewel."

Was that the reason why? Or he just realized he couldn't control himself as a full demon? In the manga didn't he state in a flashback in one of the later chapters, that he was originally going to turn himself into a pure human with it, and live with Kikyo? Dream Focus (talk) 17:05, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In the manga, I do believe he mentioned he initially was going to become a human, not a demon. For the overall reason on loosing his interest, I think it was a combination of having found people who love and accept him as he is, fear of hurting them if became a full demon after he killed so many people when his demon blood took over, and coming to accept himself as himself (part of the overall theme of the series, I think, is InuYasha becoming okay with being a half-demon). -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 17:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jakotsu edits

Any who watched the Anime should remember Jakotsu being homosexual, and going on about his attraction towards Inuyasha, and how much he wanted him. I don't see any other character having references for their information, so it's not fair to erase something from this one, and ask for a source, without doing it for all of them. If you haven't watched/read enough of the series to know much about it, you really shouldn't be editing content on that page. Dream Focus (talk) 08:21, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just because the entire article needs referencing doesn't mean we keep adding unreferenced very strong claims like that. From your own edit summary, he does NOT clearly identify himself as being homosexual, rather he acts as if he is. He could be bi, how do you know? And I'm curious, but does he do that in the manga (or is he even in the manga?). And sorry, but that last part is complete and total BS. You do not need to have seen the entire series to edit the page, nor even seen any at all. That said, I could have sworn I had seen the BoS eps, though, and I do not remember anyone acting homosexual, but it was awhile ago. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 08:42, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you look at the Chapter summaries it refers to him as a homosexual sadist. Check the issues he is in, or check out the episodes for the anime even. Perhaps you have some censored version. If you saw it on the Cartoon Network it was probably edited out or toned down a lot. I know they used to edit out all the blood and other things. In the original version I saw, it was quite obvious, he blurting out how much he wanted him on several occasions. Dream Focus (talk) 15:03, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well I rewrote the section so its less declaratory. Unless he specificially says "I'm homosexual", claiming he is WP:OR. He could be bi since we don't know his history :-P For future reference, though, other Wikipedia articles are not really a valid source, certainly not chapter summaries that may or may not be accurate/reviewed in a non-FL list. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 17:11, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Inuyasha manga 237 page 04, Jakotsu says upon meeting them for the first time, "Not only is Inuyasha Cute, but that Houshi is sexy. I'd love to see his agonized face."
Jakotsu page 5: "Your angry face is even better."
Inuyasha page 6: "Shut up you perverted bastard!"
Manga issue 240, page 15 he mentions how hansom Inuyasha's brother is, and then on page 16 says "in the end I prefer types like inuyasha who are a bit naive"
"Who asked you about your taste in men," says the ally he was speaking to.
You'd have to see the face he makes. In the uncensored Anime, it was far more obvious. Unless anyone who has seen the uncensored anime episodes, or read through all the manga recent enough to remember, says otherwise, then we'll say he is homosexual. I agree with the other editor who put that bit in there. Dream Focus (talk) 22:43, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but I don't anything that implies he is a sexual sadist, and that definately needs a source. Claiming his homosexual, fine, I disagree as I think its too exact, but someone seriously has to call him very specifically a sexual sadist IN the official English manga or the official English sub or dub, not a fansub, or it stays out. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 11:33, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Izayoi/Igeyoi in the third movie

The section on Inuyasha's mother reports Izayoi as her name.

1. While Izayoi is accurate based on the English dub dialog of the third movie, her grave marker in the same movie shows her name as Igeyoi. Suggest adding content as follows: 

(However, near the beginning of the film, Myoga takes Miroku and Sango to visit her grave, which is marked
Igeyoi (いげよい).)

2. The Kanji listed for her name in the current text, Izayoi (十六夜), is never shown in the English dub, including the English credits. Unless it's listed in the Japanese credits, it's probably not verifiable except as a Japanese dictionary look-up, (十六夜 【いざよい】 (n) sixteen-day-old moon), to prove at least that it's a well-known word. Can anyone verify it from the Japanese credits?

Unready (talk) 07:13, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Izayoi is her official English name in the film, so its what we use here. For the kanji, I agree, a source would be good, since of course it doesn't come in the English credits. Anyone checked the movie website? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 15:04, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Izayoi is her official name in the Japanese version, too. Her grave marker is the same in both versions, though, along with the hiragana on it. (I still think it's a curious deviation. Did she have a different name during the animation phase? Did the animators not know how to spell? Is it pronounced differently in whatever dialect the animator speaks? That last one might be testable by someone with more expertise than I have. Oh, well.) Checking a web site is a good idea. Unfortunately, as far as Sunrise is concerned, "Fire on the Mystic Island" seems to be the only movie that concerns them presently. I found a copy of the movie with the original Japanese credits and can verify that the kanji is indeed 十六夜 there. Otherwise my hardly exhaustive search efforts uncovered only fan sites with the kanji. HTH -- Unready (talk) 06:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Could be a typo on the gravestone. Wouldn't be the first snafu in a film :) Per all guidelines I know, the one used in the credits is what we should use, rather than what's shown on the grave.-- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 06:27, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's probably either: an archaic reading of 十六夜, a dialectal reading of 十六夜, a typo of 十六夜, or a forced furigana reading from the anime only. Moocows rule 06:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Checked the website. No info found. I couldn't understand it, it used WAY too much Kanji. It almost seemed like Man'yogana... Moocows rule 06:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sango (InuYasha), Miroku (InuYasha), and Shippo merges

I propose that they are merged into the main character list. As it stands, the articles are basically made of relationships, attacks, and plot overviews that can easily be condensed. Honestly, there isn't much out there for them anyway. They were side characters who were fine for comic relief or important plot points, but weren't praised critically. Opinions? WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 22:34, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support all. No significant coverage in reliable references for any of them. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 22:37, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. But I guess Sesshomaru, Kykyo, and Naraku would also need merge.Tintor2 (talk) 16:58, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Kikyo has a possiblity of having some reception notes, and I'm sure Sesshomaru does too. The problem is finding them and cleaning up the articles. Naraku should be merged, though. I'll add a tag to that article once these merges are decided on/done. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 17:35, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Kikyo was discussed in the first round, and seemed borderline, so her article got a reprieve. I think Sesshomaru could likely have a good article. Naraku, maybe borderline...need to check on that. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 19:15, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I know I might get my head bitten off about this (since that usually happens when I express an opinion on a talk page on Wikipedia), but Sango, Miroku, and Shippo are major characters and even appear more than Sesshomaru, who I have noticed has not had his article suggested to be merged into the List of InuYasha Characters. You might as well merge all the characters into the article, since they all basically have the same things you have described, WhiteArcticWolf. Also, Naraku has a fairly long article. I think that you might as well merge all the characters, since to you, only a few stand out as important enough to have their own article (InuYasha, Kagome, Kikyo, and Sesshomaru), but all the main characters that appear on a regular basis should have main articles, since like you said, they have their own backgrounds, and just because you don't think they were "praised critically" does not mean that they should not have their own articles. 142.162.93.163 (talk) 12:16, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Their status as "major" characters within the series is irrelevant for the purposes of determining if they should have articles on Wikipedia. They must have real world notability, meaning actual significant coverage in reliable, third party sources. Few fictional characters have this. InuYasha has such coverage. Kikyo appears to as she as noted in various books as one ideal example of a miko within anime and manga. Kagome and Sesshomaru are likely to have sources, but will be merged if none are find. The rest do not. If you can point to reliable sources critically discussing the characters, by all means, please share. However, articles on fictional characters that are nothing but plot summary with fan theories, and no real world content are destined to be merged. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 13:01, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that you might as well just merge all the characters. If you think Kagome does not have any "sources", or anyone else, you might as well just merge everyone. Kagome is one of the main characters, and to me, if you think she should be merged, you might as well merge all the characters, since I gave a valid reason: She is a main character, more main then Sango, Miroku, and Shippo, for sure. Kagome 77 (talk) 13:08, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kagome can be merged if no reliable sources come up for her; it's just that no one has really begun improving the article. Notability on Wikipedia isn't determined by being a main character or importance in a series (imagine if all main characters in every series had an article), it's by third-party sources and the amount of reception it recieved. Creation notes help as well. Character lists work out very well because if a character doesn't have enough real-world information, it can be combined with many to get a good character list. Sesshomaru and InuYasha can be considered iconic in some sense and they appear in many articles. Naraku? Not really iconic, and most reviews make no mention of him, other than calling him some annoying guy with some plan who won't die. Kagome? Being the main character, reviewers probably do mention her quite a bit. But whether or not it's for a plot summary or actually speaking of her character, it varies. If you want the article to stay, then by all means locate information. Reviews of the entire series and manga volumes often contain notes on the reviewer's feeling towards each characters. However, I have no plans to suggest merging her anytime soon. I plan to try and improve it at some point pretty soon. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 21:26, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What to do about translations?

I provided translations a few months back, but it was deleted as being trivial and OR. Now, the translation of "骨" is given as "bone" (which is incorrect in this context; "骨" better translates as skill). Should we provide translations of the names or not? Svyatoslav (talk) 07:19, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No. It is trivial as they have little to no consequence with the story and can be fairly subjective. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 07:25, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Profile images

I think there could be more additional photos of each individual characters, just to make this page more readable perhaps.

Such as, having a big gang photo of the Inuyasha-gang AND having some character mug shots of each named person.

88.105.19.169 (talk) 23:19, 23 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No. We do not include individual images of characters (nor are such images photo). It violates WP:NONFREE. All that is needed is one or two group shots showing the majority of the main characters. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 00:14, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There's a picture of Koga's group, but not of Naraku's. It only has three characters in it. I think Naraku's group should have a picture in the article, as they are more important, and as it is it does not show the majority of the main characters. If it can only have two pictures, shouldnt one with 7-12 characters be chosen over one with only 3?
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