Talk:Korean language

If you want to know the Korean name of something or somebody, please ask at the notice board's “Korean name needed” section or try a dictionary.

should add korean peculiar, untranslatable things

such as mongshil mongshil (wool) doongshildoongshil (balloon) dongshil dongshil (floating)

dalsong dalsong (dew)

Citation for loanwords

i RE-INSTATED THE CITATION. Although I gave up waiting for the link to load, I found the cited material at [1]. More importantly, the citation is to a book. By going to the real world, one can find the cited material in this authoritative source. Perhaps the link needs to be fixed, but the citation is valid. Kdammers (talk) 01:50, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Incidentally I also had problems with those links in Firefox ... IE seemed fine. Or one can even just scroll down to page 12 in Google Books. cab (talk) 02:16, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Dubiousness of difficulty in studying Korean language

(2008) Korean Language speaker is 80 million. ( Update is needed). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Koreanstudy1 (talk • contribs) 13:18, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Total speakers of Korean language populations should be updated to 80-87 million of Korean speakers worldwide. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bostonkp (talk • contribs) 10:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

"Korean is regarded in the West as a difficult language to learn, an opinion that was expressed as early as 1880 by German businessman Ernst Oppert..."

I found this line laughably ridiculous. A 1880 German businessman finding it difficult does not speak for the majority of others learning this language, two centuries later. I've removed this portion entirely because of the a) lack of statistical credence; and b) relevance. I'm sure there are harder languages to learn and quantifying languages according to difficulty of study itself is a complex task. I've removed this portion entirely. 192.206.151.130 (talk) 16:21, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I wish you'd do the same for hardest language. --Kjoonlee 16:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

And the rest of the section which you gave no reason whatsoever for deleting? The difficulty of learning a language is obviously relative; the best we can do is give statistics from those who have done quantitative studies on learners of it, and the DLI are a widely-cited (if obviously Anglocentric) authority in this regard. cab (talk) 17:36, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Commonwealth of Independent States under "where spoken"?

According to the 2002 Russian census, there were only 60,888 speakers of Korean ([2] row 72) out of 148,556 people claiming Korean ethnicity ([3] row 86). That 60,888 is undoubtedly composed overwhelmingly of the 55,000 or so Sakhalin Koreans, and not Koryo-saram, who are by now five or six generations removed from their immigrant forebears who settled in the Russian Far East.

The trend of falling Korean-language proficiency among the Koryo-saram is well-documented. The last Soviet Union census in 1989, now two decades old, found 216,811 ethnic Koreans who claimed Korean as their "mother tongue" [4], a fall of 12% since 1970 [5]. In contrast, the number of ethnic Koreans claiming Russian as their mother tongue doubled over the same period. Basically what is happening here is that all the elderly folks who used to speak Korean with their own parents before the 1937 deportations are dying out and being replaced by ethnic Korean babies who grow up speaking solely in Russian. This decrease undoubtedly accelerated in the period 1989-2008 as compared to 1970-1989. German Kim predicted that the language might disappear entirely within 10-15 years, with the exception of South Korean expatriates and a few Koryo-saram who learn the language by socializing with them [6].

So by now, the total number of Korean speakers in the CIS (as opposed to people with great-grandmothers who spoke Korean 50 years ago) is probably less than in the Philippines or Canada, each of which have around a hundred thousand recent Korean immigrants and their second-generation children (see Korean Canadian and Koreans in the Philippines); unless anyone has a current source for the number of Korean speakers in the CIS, I'd suggest removing that entry. cab cab (talk) 05:07, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

refrences

i do not mean to offend anyone but this artical looks like it has lots of information but could also use more sources. about 5 more sources would do.hawkey131 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hawkey131 (talk • contribs) 21:57, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Intonation

Any information on intonation patterns?? 210.229.27.75 (talk) 23:43, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Number of speakers

Korean Peninsula: South Korea:50,846,823+ North Korea:25,928,000+ Overseas Korean:7,932,671= 84,707,494. Total Korean speaking population is 84.7 Million.

SOUTH KOREA: 50,044,790 + NORTH KOREA: 25,790,000 + OVERSEAS KOREANS: 7,077,716 (2008)= 82,879,507 KOREANS/KOREAN LANGUAGE POPULATION AROUND THE WORLD. PLEASE UPDATE POPULATION FIGURE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoreanResearch (talk • contribs) 02:27, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Could you provide a reliable source for those figures? --Swift (talk) 04:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

KOREAN LANGUAGE IS SPOKEN 80-88 MILLION AROUND THE WORLD. NOT 67 MILLION. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Koreanstudy1 (talk • contribs) 12:28, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

That may well be, but you have to provide a reliable source to show it. The source currently being used says 67 million. You can't change the number given while still citing it to the old source. —Angr 12:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Since both you and User:Irishboston persist in changing the number without adding a source to back it up, I have been forced to protect the article until you do so. When either of you (or are you the same person with two accounts?) has a source that backs up the larger figure, announce it here on the talk page and the page can be unprotected. —Angr 13:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Or three accounts, if Koreanstudy1 (talk · contribs) and Koreanstudy101 (talk · contribs) are the same person as each other and as Irishboston (talk · contribs). —Angr 13:27, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

67 million Koreans is wrong. 88 million Koreans is correct. THE YEAR 2008 KOREAN TOTAL KOREAN POPULATION IS ABOUT 78 MILLION. HOW CAN WIKIPEDIA MAKE SUCH A SILLY AND STUPID MISTAKE 67 MILLION???? WIKPEDIA NEED TO SMELL COFFEE AND WAKE UP. ITS 80-88 MILLION TOTAL KOREAN LANGUAGE SPEAKERS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88millionkoreans (talk • contribs) 13:39, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

KOREAN PENINSULA: 72,711,933 PLUS 7,000,000 MILLION OVERSEAS KOREAN POPULATION YOU HAVE TOTAL 79,711,933 PLUS 6,000,000 HALF KOREAN POPULATIONS AND NORTH KOREAN POLITICAL REFUGEES LIVING IN MANCHURIA, CHINA, RUSSIA, SOUTHEAST ASIA, EASTERN EUROPE. TOTAL KOREAN SPEAKING POPULATION SHOULD BE ABOUT 80-86 MILLION. PLEASE CORRECT WIKIPEDIA NUMBER. KOREAN POPULATION (2008) IS 72 MILLION. HOW CAN IT BE 67 MILLION??? FACTS AND FIGURES DOES NOT ADD UP. PLEASE CORRECT THE NUMBER.

For, what is this, the fifth time I've asked?, give a reliable source. You keep coming here, registering under different user names and screaming at us in all caps that there are around 80–86 million Korean speakers, but you still haven't provided a single source to back up your claim. That's all that's needed. Stop yelling, do some research, and come back and provide a source. —Angr 14:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Korea4one and Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Korea4one (2nd). Undoubtedly the same editor. 61.18.170.214 (talk) 14:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Solution

I added a source which says 78 million, which closely tracks to the cited population figures at the Wikipedia article Koreans. In any case, numbers have to match the quoted sources! I believe this solves the issue, but if it doesn't, reliable sources must be provided for any change. Edits which stubbornly insist on ignoring Wikipedia policies may be deleted immediately. -DoctorW 18:22, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, though I'm astonished that the 14th edition of Ethnologue gives a higher number than the 15th edition. —Angr 19:47, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

78 MILLION IS OUTDATED SOURCE. SOUTH KOREAN POPULATION: 49,044,790 + NORTH KOREAN POPULATION: 24,790,000+ OVERSEAS KOREAN: 7,044,716= 80,879,506 KOREAN SPEAKERS.(L1) KOREAN SPEAKER (L2): Half Koreans, Adopted Koreans, North Korean political refugee's: 11,230,000. 80,879,506+11,230,000= 92,109,506 Korean speakers around the world.

WIKEPIDA INFORMATION: SOUTH KOREA POPULATION (2007): 49,044,790+ NORTH KOREA POPULATION (2007) 23,790,000 + OVERSEAS KOREAN POPULATION (2007) 7,932,671. 49,044,790+23,790,000+7,932,671= 80,767,461 TOTAL KOREAN SPEAKER. NOT 78-79 MILLION. CORRECT FACT SHOULD BE 80,767,461 MILLION KOREAN SPEAKER. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Korean1Professor (talk • contribs) 13:59, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

False. South Korea has one million foreigners. A significant proportion of those speak little to no Korean [7]. Also some of the Overseas Korean population are now third, fourth, or even fifth generation (especially Koryo-saram and Koreans in Japan, totalling another 1 million+ individuals). They speak local languages, not Korean; their great-grandparents are the ones who once spoke Korean, but since they're dead now, they don't count towards the total number of current Korean speakers. cab (talk) 14:26, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

WIKIPEDIA "FALSE" FACTS: WIKIPEDIA SUGGEST KOREAN LANGUAGE SPOKEN 78 MILLION ( USING 10 YEAR OLD DATA). SOUTH KOREA POPULATION: 49,044,790+ NORTH KOREA POPULATION:24,790,000+ OVERSEAS KOREAN POPULATION: 7,044,716= 80,879,506 Million. ( KOREAN TOTAL POPULATION IS 80,879,506 + 10,230,000 ( HALF KOREANS, ADOPTED KOREANS, NORTH KOREAN POLITICAL REFUGEE LIVING IN CHINA, RUSSIA, SOUTHEAST ASIA, MIDDLE EAST). KOREAN SPEAKING POPULATION AROUND THE WORLD IS ( 91,109,506 MILLION.): IF WIKIPEDIA CANNOT ACCEPT TRUE FACT. THEN ITS SAVE TO SAY KOREAN LANGUAGE IS SPOKEN BY 80,879,506 MILLION KOREANS. KOREAN PENINSULA 73,834,790+ OVERSEAS KOREANS 7,044,716= 80,879,506 MILLION KOREANS. DON'T TELL US KOREANS LIVING IN KOREAN PENINSULA AND OVERSEAS KOREANS CANNOT SPEAK OR WRITE KOREANS!!!! UPDATE CORRECT FACT AND FIGURE. KOREAN LANGUAGE IS SPOKEN BY 80.8 MILLION KOREANS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Korean1Professor (talk • contribs) 07:28, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Altaic

Who says that Korean is Altaic? Most linguists? That is not correct, most linguists believe is it language isolate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.214.107.211 (talk) 21:07, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure that you know what 'most linguists' believe. It's never been universally accepted anyway, and the text of the article explains that. 220.253.138.16 (talk) 20:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

KOREAN LANGUAGE IS RELATED TO " ALTAIC" FAMILY. ( KOREAN, JAPANESE, MONGOLIAN, MANCHURIAN, TURKISH). KOREAN LANGUAGE IS NOT RELATED TO CHINESE OR HAN-PEOPLE. OVER PAST 10 YEARS CHINESE SCHOLARS WANTED TO TAKE MORE CREDITS APPLYING KOREANS RELATE TO CHINESE BECAUSE KOREANS USE CHINESE CHARACTERS OR KOREAN VOCABULARY DERIVED FROM CHINESE CHARACTERS. REALITY KOREANS GRAMMAR OR WRITING DOES NOT RELATE TO CHINESE. KOREANS BORROWED VOCABULARY FROM CHINESE CHARACTERS. FOR EXAMPLE, ENGLISH ADOPTED VOCABULARY FROM LATIN, GREEK, FRENCH, AND GERMAN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Korean1Professor (talk • contribs) 03:11, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Need Korean

Need Korean word in the box at Kowtow. Is there a Sino-Korean equivalent (such as gaedu or godu? Badagnani (talk) 18:34, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

This article is about Korean language. Do not bring the irrelevant request for the Chinese culture.--Caspian blue 18:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

C-Rating

I just rated this article C-Class for WP Languages, but would like to give a bit more reasons than I could give in the edit history. First, there are no in-line references. For this article, this is not as bad as for other articles as most information is Korean school grammar that you can "verify" everywhere. But as the linguistic value of school grammar is known to be limited, it would merit to quote from some actual research. It's all there. And, if I remember correctly, Korean vowel phonemes are in dispute. Then, the article is inconsistent. First, it doesn't give any reason why adjectives are distinct from verbs which is easy enough to demonstrate. Then, it continues with nouns, but provides misplaced info on their origin first! The worst part is grammar other than morphology. Korean is quite well-known for double object constructions and a few other things, so that should be discussed. Converbs should be mentioned as well, and not to mention aspect and evidentiality. The part on language origin is somewhat biased, but I admit that I'm free to improve it myself if I would like to. Mention Vovin, for example. And it is not so biased that it is already unscientific, it does mention the other position, so it'll be okay for me for the time being. A yes, and " Morphophonemics" doesn't contain a transcription. (I won't do that, I'm only familiar with the Yale transcription.) G Purevdorj (talk) 08:09, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I've added RR to the morphophonemics section. BTW, what do you mean by double object constructions? I'm not too familiar with Korean syntax, I'm afraid.. :) Do you mean sentences like "코끼리는 코가 길다" and "코끼리한테 사과를 주지 말고 원숭이를 줘라"? The latter means "Don't give the apple to the elephant; give it to the monkey instead" instead of "Don't give the apple to the elephant; give him the monkey instead", BTW. ;) --Kjoonlee 21:39, 4 January 2009 (UTC)