Talk:Frank Lorenzo

Comment

This biography is loaded with one sided and unsourced claims. Not even close to unbiased or fair. Pburns07 (talk) 12:19, December 12, 2006

This is no longer true (05 Jan 2009); too much more detail and this will become a 4mb bio. The biography appears to be reasonably well balanced, on the basis of historical evidence. Neither labor nor Lorenzo and his friends will ever be wholly satisfied with it; but it DOES now appear much better. It is, in my view, an A-level bio. I have recently reviewed many others with higher ratings that are less salutary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redstoneranger (talk • contribs) 18:20, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey, RedstoneRanger, your transparent attempts to look fair and balanced don't fool anyone. I.E. "Neither Lorenzo and his friends..." Nice try. Lorenzo's critics ARE NOT THE UNIONS. His critics are anyone who likes to see capitalism thrive- i.e. people who like to see airlines run profitably. Lorenzo walked away from the industry with tens of millions of dollars despite having never left an airline in a profitable condition. He destroyed shareholder value on an epic scale. He fits the mold of a corporate raider, not the executive of a company. Besides, his bio shouldn't even be this long.

It should be pointed out...

That almost across the board none of the airlines Lorenzo oversaw (or in fact any of the ones his proteges did either) were ever very successful in the business they were operating in (compare People's Express to say Southwest, the collapse of TWA under one of his proteges, the collapse of Eastern, and the generally poor performance of Continental until it was brought under new management). Most, if not all of the "success" of Lorenzos tactics were mostly in often byztantine and favorable corporate raids and financial dealings, and not in fact, having anything to do with the companys operations at all. SiberioS 06:18, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

=

This commentator has poor knowledge of the actual facts, and seems ignorant of the circumstances that propelled Eastern, TWA (and other carriers Texas Air sought to purchase) to the grave. These carriers were "walking dead" airlines. They had unsustainable business models, fatal labor economics, and hidebound managements. With or without Lorenzo and Texas Air, they would have failed. It was the obdurate opposition of entrenched managements and unions that caused these carriers, quite literally, to choose suicide over a sustainable economic future. Frank Lorenzo is neither saint nor cherub, but he understood economics. Just as the vineyard worker cuts away dead wood in order to preserve the living vines, Lorenzo and other like him tried to force these airlines into the modern age. Eastern's unions preferred to kill their company than to work on a plan to save it. Their view of what the future could be was dead wrong. The industry Lorenzo foresaw is the one we have today.

And, oh by the way, Continental was "overseen" by Lorenzo. It survived; and today it is the strongest and most highly-regarded carrier in the U.S. trunk airline industry. Eastern too, would have survived if its employees had paid closer attention to the truth concerning their situation. And, oh by the way, Lorenzo never ran People Express. That company was run by Donald Burr. It was Frank Lorenzo who SAVED People Express after it had gone bankrupt (it was at the time by far the largest airline in the New York metro area); and thereby saved thousands of jobs.

The other airlines (and their managements) you deride created the environment which permitted the changed industry we have today. Most of the men and women who began these firms are still employed in positions of high responsibility in the industry. I know many of them personally.

Get a handle on your facts, and, more importantly, your analysis. (redstoneranger)

It should be pointed out...

This entry is a inaccurate portrayal of Frank Lorenzo and fails to credit him accurately with the bankruptcy and divesture of Eastern and the subsequent bankruptcy proceedings of Continental, in which the Court determined he was unfit to head the airline. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.190.224.130 (talk) 00:12, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more. The page hardly mentions the fact that Lorenzo bankrupted nearly every airline he came into contact with. Who wrote this article? Frank Lorenzo? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.64.111.117 (talk) 19:32, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and great- I made a series of relevant and well sourced additions to the article that mention a few of Lorenzo's less-than-admirable accomplished. They were all deleted... by a user named... Frank. Great. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.186.213 (talk) 03:46, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

This page is very misleading and presents a one-sided, overly-flattering view of Frank Lorenzo. It also fails to mention that Lorenzo was effectively banned from owning or operating another airline in the United States ever again. He did not quietly retire in 1990 as is implied. He was kicked out of the industry forever. That this article omits these facts leads me to question its neutrality and accuracy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.72.19.178 (talk) 16:44, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

An attempt at remediation and fairness

I have worked for Continental, Texas Intl., New York Air, as well as other airlines and financial industry firms. I am personally acquainted with Mr. Lorenzo, in all his moods. I've gone through this article and attempted, in an even-handed fashion, to elucidate some of the more heavily-contended points cited by previous reviewers. While it is true that Lorenzo was truculent and inflexible in many of his dealings with labor, it is equally true that, if an industry ever needed rapid change and re-birth, it was the U.S. airline industry of the 1980s. Lorenzo's sword cuts both ways. The industry today is, and I am in a peculiarly unique position to know this, far better off in terms of adaptability, flexibility and realistic financing than it was 25+ years ago. Much of the credit for this innures to Frank Lorenzo. It is equally true that his roughshod manner trashed the hopes, dreams, and lifestyles of many airline industry employees. That is a legacy that Mr. Lorenzo appears to have chosen to live with. On balance, I believe that we as a nation are better off having a resilient and financially-well-grounded airline industry; but that conclusion may be best left to our children or grandchildren to decide. One Lorenzo legacy is indisputable: whether you like it or not, he, more than any other individual since 1980, has planned, maneuvered, and succeeded in imposing his vision of airline economics and network operating philosophies on the U.S. airline industry--although his goals at the time may have been much more limited. American (AA), Delta (DL), Northwest (NW), United (UA), US Air (US) and even post-deregulation carriers flying European and Asian skies are direct beneficiaries of the bruises, bumps and lacerations of the Lorenzo era.

As concerns one commentator's remark that, "(the article) hardly mentions the fact that Lorenzo bankrupted nearly every airline he came into contact with", it ought not to need be, but appears to need be commented that Delta Airlines, Northwest Airlines, and United Airlines, all large legacy carriers at whose helm Frank Lorenzo has never sat, have in recent years endured bankruptcy. Pan Am and TWA, once the crown jewels of American international aviation, both wound up dead, with American having to rescue TWA from the same fate as Pan Am. Texas International was never a bankruptee; and National Airlines might have avoided its bankrupt fate after absorption by Pan Am if it had preferred a merger with Texas International in 1978--although we will never know. There are other carriers "untainted" by Lorenzo's brush that have also fallen bankrupt, I cite "new" Frontier to name but one. Bankruptcy is, in American law, not a bad but a GOOD thing: it affords companies (or individuals) in difficult circumstances another chance at building a successful franchise (or lives). What is wrong with that? "redstoneranger" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redstoneranger (talk • contribs) 01:33, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

All of which still glosses over and fails to address that Lorenzo was found to be unfit to run an airline, and is the only individual I am aware of who is BANNED from doing so. Lorenzo is devoid of any redeeming virtues, and is in fact the prototype for those who have created the financial crisis we are currnetly in (2009). 76.252.16.113 (talk) 18:27, 22 February 2009 (UTC)Tristar

Dubious Deregulation Credentials

Sure, Lorenzo did "break the unions" and made sure that a company with the same name as Continental (and whatever other airlines that he led) flew again some day after bankruptcy(or not- i.e. Eastern Airlines). I don't see how he deserves any credit for deregulation. Deregulation mattered because the companies that came out of it were profitable. Lorenzo gutted companies of some of their inefficiencies (and some of their profitable units) but never led a profitable airline, or led an airline towards profitability. The fact remains that Congress, and not Frank Lorenzo, passed the airline deregulation acts. Rollin King and Herb Kelleher, the geniuses of Southwest Airlines, realized low fare air travel profitably years before Lorenzo was even a chief executive at an airline. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.127.86.16 (talk) 06:50, 3 April 2009 (UTC)