Talk:Suicide methods

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Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived. If further archiving is needed, see Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.

Previous discussions:

• Archive 1 (2004 to 26 September 2005):
• Archive 2 (October 2005 - April 2006):
• Archive 3 (June 2006 - May 2008):

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I think this article is incomplete

I am trying to find suicide methods that guarantee death and ensure that the person doesn't end up alive and crippled or somehow disables. Please include more methods and how to attempt them.

Thank you in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.208.171.1 (talk) 18:09, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Just Something to Consider with this particular Article

I love wikipedia, we all do, that's the beauty of it. However, by simply asking, is this section necessarily appropriate. Where exactly will this end? First it tells you that a noose could be used to kill yourself, then it lists it in methods...what next? Will it tell you how to make one, where to hang it, and how long it'll take?

I sincerely hope that the people here remove this article. Would that stop someone from committing suicide? I don't know, but it certainly wouldn't hinder their process. If anything, it provides a catalyst to those wanting to commit suicide a faster path into doing it...imagine if the process of their 'searching' did these people run across an article that helped them instead?

Then again, I'm one voice, what do you guys thinks? Thanks... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.94.68 (talk) 01:06, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree. This article should be removed. I think this could in someway act as an aid to someone trying to commit suicide, and therefore is immoral. The suicide article is enough —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.57.230.43 (talk) 00:07, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Shush. This page is completely useless to anyone planning to commit suicide, beyond replicating some very elementary knowledge available to anyone with a basic education human biology. You hardly need a medical doctorate to know if you set yourself on fire, you might experience some excruicating pain and die from the burns, or that shooting yourself in the head might not be good for your long term survival prospects, do you? The Flash powder page is far more useful to the suicidal. Strange your efforts are aimed here, isn't it? 94.192.227.0 (talk) 06:14, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I strongly dislike this article

I strongly dislike this agree and believe that it should be moved whether or not does this article hold an NPOV stance. Its not just the way it's written. It's about content. A list like this could lead a person who was searching for suicide methods to commit suicide. Why not just delete this article before something negative happens and Wikipedia will/may have to face lawsuits and attention from the public media? I seriously have no idea why this article has to be here. List the methods? Fine. They have already been said in article Suicide. And that's plenty enough, isn't it? Prowikipedians (talk) 16:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
And, what's more disturbing is that over the past TWO YEARS, there have been FIVE NOMINATIONS FOR THE REMOVAL OF THIS ARTICLE. Prowikipedians (talk) 16:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

That someone or other stongly dislikes this article is given. The subject is contentious. However, the quarrel has always resulted in the solution that this article is morally bonafide. --Ezeu (talk) 19:13, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Five nominations merely mean there have been five people who wish to have it removed. I think the fact that it's been kept every single time is a fairly strong consensus now. I would go through some of the reasons why I support the existence of the article, but it's been so thoroughly hashed out in all the previous discussions it seems pointless. Read the archives and past AfD discussions. Eve Hall (talk) 19:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Fine. Keep it then. Then some Wikipedians like me are going to use it a how-to-commit-suicide guidebook. And why thank you. Lets have Wikipedia establish some negative notability someday when a major group suicide starts by citing Wikipedia as their number one source. Prowikipedians (talk) 14:53, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if you are aware of this, but people managed to kill themselvesin all sorts of ways before Wikipedia was even established. If someone is feeling suicidal, I sincerely doubt the existence or non-existence of this article is going to change their mind. And, unlike a Wikipedia article, most suicide notes do not cite their sources. Beeblbrox (talk) 17:25, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Of course. I don't know if YOU know about this, but WIKIPEDIA HAS BECOME ONE OF THE FIRST HITS FOR SOURCES OF INFORMATION.Prowikipedians (talk) 04:58, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but as a how-to-commit-suicide guidebook it's pretty useless, actually. It doesn't give the necessary details required to carry out any but the most obvious methods - I can't imagine anyone wouldn't realise drowning involves immersion in water, for example. It doesn't give recipes for drug cocktails, doesn't give heights for jumping or hanging etc. A simple google search turns up masses of how-to information, for anyone who actually wants to know details. There is some rather shoddy unsourced material in there currently though, and I agree the article needs cleaning up. Eve Hall (talk) 09:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, then you tell me. Where's the list of homicide methods? I don't see it on Wikipedia, do I? Article Suicide is enough. Prowikipedians (talk) 15:43, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the Portuguese penal code has to do with anything. Even if it applied in this situation, nobody is inciting or assisting anything. Since everything in the article needs a verifiable citation, then by definition we're not providing any information that isn't readily available elsewhere. In response to your previous comment, Wikipedia has a lot of information about homicide and murder, in particular a category with 88 articles and 18 sub-cats. Eve Hall (talk) 16:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. Coolgamer (talk) 17:35, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Prowikipedians. This article is more like a "how to" guide than an encyclopedia article. Needs a major overhaul IMO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.200.219 (talk) 20:01, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

People who want to commit suicide are going to do it one way or another. A better course of action would be keeping your opinion to yourself instead of trying to be the Internet Police. Coolgamer (talk) 03:25, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

This will be a hugely contentious request, but taking into account the number of people who are likely to read this article in order to discover ways in which to commit suicide, I think Wikipedia has a humanitarian duty to provide a link to some sort of counselling website in encyclopaedic fashion (possibly after the comment that most do not act on their urges).

CharlieRCD (talk) 11:52, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I say, "Keep it!" (if it can be reworked to be anything more than a list of ideas that anyone could dream up while sitting on the toilet). Maybe it is not intended as a how-to guide, but it is almost devoid of any sort of meaningful information. Certainly the fact that people object to the topic is utterly irrelevant. Never has the change-the-channel-if-you-don't-like-it argument been more apt than in defending controversial Internet content. In broadcasting, channel space is limited and there is a sense in which the content "comes into the home" and appears before relatively passive viewers, in particular, children. But censorship is dicey, even with broadcasting. On the Internet and within Wiki people who don't like it should just stay away. It is certainly true that this content (if better) might, in fact, aid people in doing something which others believe that they should be prevented from doing. But the Internet is not our nanny nor is it the morals police for a particular point-of-view. 74.242.247.197 (talk) 20:42, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I dont understand why this article has not been deleted. IT IS PRACTICALLY ASSISTING SUICIDE. We have enough educational material on suicide already. We do not need an article devoted to helping suicidal people to kill themselves. "the internet is not our nanny"? That is a ridiculous thing to say as it has nothing to do with this. In Wikipedia we have to follow the Wikipedia rules. I strongly disagree with this article. THIS IS WRONG! —Preceding unsigned comment added by HandGrenadePins (talk • contribs) 19:56, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

This article does nothing of the sort, and methodology is a fairly important part of suicide as a subject. Certainly this article should refrain from becoming too instructional, for obvious reasons, but to ignore or remove it completely isn't necessary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.14.7 (talk) 15:53, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, this article may HELP suicide candidates (in a good way I mean). A quick glance through the different methods usually brings up issues that might very well prevent the suicide from suceeding and instead permanently crippling the survivor, a discouraging issue, just because you want to be dead doesn't mean you would accept to end crippled. Worries about fouling up the suicide attempt will of course make the suicidal person search for other ways, but this buys time, and with a (considerable) amount of luck, the interest in comitting suicide might be reduced somewhat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.75.7.194 (talk) 19:06, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Cutting wrists

I do not accept this as truth, as cutting wrists is one of the most common types of self-harm, which normally has nothing to do with suicide. Cutting wrists is in fact very unlikely to kill a person, and should therefore not be called suicidal behaviour. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.210.34 (talk) 18:54, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the wrist-cutting is basically if you're just looking for attention. If you're serious, the gun is pretty much the way to go. Aldrich Hanssen (talk) 02:06, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Hanssen, this is totally outragious for you to say this. Firstly, not all cutters are self-harming for attention. In fact very very few do it for attention. If wrist-cutting is for attention, then why do so many self-harmers hide their wounds. This kind of ignorance is what has put the world into a mess. I hate to be insulting, but that was completely uncalled for.--HandGrenadePins (talk) 19:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Although this may be the case in a few instances, though none that I can think of, cutting the wrists IS a genuine method of suicide, as it CAN cause fatal bleeding when the radial artery is severed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.184.119 (talk) 19:07, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

"none that I can think of". Self Harm is actually very very commonly found in the cutting of wrists, and although there is a possibility of death occurring from it, most people who self-harm do not know that. In reality most people who slit wrists are not suicidal. It makes no sense whatsoever do go for the wrists for a painful death when u can just as easily hit a more important organ. There are a huge number of self-harmers in the world, but very few are actually suicidal.--HandGrenadePins (talk) 19:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

That's entirely correct, but that's not the issue. The original point of this talk section seems to state that wrist-cutting shouldn't be considered a suicide method, which it most definitely is.

Is there any evidence which states that this is actually suicide, rather than accidental suicide? The sources we have only state that it can cause death. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HandGrenadePins (talk • contribs) 10:43, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Gunshot wound

Why is there no information on how to be sure of successfully executing a suicide by gun in one shot? Aldrich Hanssen (talk) 02:05, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

You'll want to visit the methods file for that type of information. SolarisBigot (talk) 04:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

This is an exact reason as to why this article should be deleted. The fact that people want to teach people how to commit suicide IS assisting suicide. We have to delete this before it gets too far, if it isn't too far already. This is completely irrelevant to Suicide and there is already a basic list there. Starting a subject of such controversy is dangerous anyway. Delete this page NOW! —Preceding unsigned comment added by HandGrenadePins (talk • contribs) 10:24, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I doubt a discussion page on Wikipedia is going to spawn a wave of suicides, and the idea that the article must be deleted before "it gets too far" ignores the fact that Google readily suggests lots of related searches when you search for "ways to commit suicide." Unless you have a way to rid Google, Yahoo and every other major search engine of all references to suicide methods, there are a lot of ways someone can find out information about suicide methods. (The link I provided is usually divined from Google with the search "methods file," which isn't terribly imaginative or specialized.) The person posted a question that related to the content of the article, to which I responded with information that is far more specialized than what the article provides. Some distraught soul looking to end it all isn't likely to come to the discussion page when looking for details on ways to do the deed.

Simply put: let's be realistic. If someone is totally focused on committing suicide, removing one tiny drop of water from the ocean of information won't prevent the situation from happening. If the article is to be deleted, it should be due to lack of verifiable information, not because someone might stumble upon a method of self-destruction not otherwise available from numerous other sites. SolarisBigot (talk) 03:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I think that Wikipedia should keep the suicide page but leave any assisting suicide out of it. Agree?

How exactly is Wikipedia assisting? If I provide information on how to make ice, and someone uses ice to kill a person, did I "assist" the killer? If that's the case, there are literally thousands of articles that will have to be removed or edited to remove any "how it's done" information. SolarisBigot (talk) 03:08, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

u forgot somefing

What about poisoning and starvation methods? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.127.114 (talk) 17:01, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Poisoning's got a section, but yeah, starvation could be included, probably with a link to 'hunger strike'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.135.137 (talk) 22:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't bleeding to death be in it's own category here?

re-organization

Would it be helpful if the methods were organized somehow, perhaps "political", "murder-suicide", etc.?joo-yoon (talk) 05:28, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Line that needs rewriting

Hello all people. I do agree that this page should be kept, but there is one line that is inappropriate, not academic/lacking a NPOV stance, and because of the controversy on this page, I don't want to edit it myself. Anyone who wants to edit it, it's in the drug overdose section. Here it is - "Considering the very high doses needed, vomiting or falling asleep before taking enough of the active agent might be a serious hurdle." That's not appropriate at all. It leans that the article IS meant to be a how-to on committing suicide, and the rest of it obviously shows it's not. Let's get to work, people! WiiAlbanyGirl (talk) 05:24, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree, when I read that part it did strike me as 'odd', if that makes sense. But I don't quite know how to go about editing that...I guess it could be removed as it's not referenced etc...this is my first visit to this page though, so I wouldn't want to go about editing a controversial page in that way yet either! 94.192.52.244 (talk) 03:01, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Positive aspect(s) of this article?

I don't think this article provides any form of catalyst to perform the act of suicide for those at risk to it.

Either way, as long as the consensus is to keep the article (which I assume is the reason it is still here) wouldn't it be a positive aspect if the article includes treatment of the various methods of suicide? By treatment I mean the case that the suicide has failed or the case that the victim is caught in the act of suicide by some arbitrary person and a rescue/emergency treatment/resuscitation is attempted by said person. The main aspect of the article is to explain the suicide method itself, but I think it would be a positive aspect if treatment would be outlined with links to more detailed information for each specific technique. Any such knowledge might be useful to the lay person -- although general emergency treatment and first aid could (and should) be read instead there is no way to know that every reader of this article actually bothers to read and learn emergency treatment and first aid. The fact is that someone reads this article, out of interest or boredom, either way, why not include such useful information that could potentially help to save lives? Also, some good faithed help might actually make the injury worse, e.g. moving someone with a broken neck after failed defenestration.

Another minor positive aspect (if you can call it that) would be to describe the sensory experience of the patient in each case (preferably worst case where applicable) as descriptions of suffering or potential suffering might be a variable which makes the act of suicide less appealing to those at risk?

I think every technique should include at least:

• The technique itself.
• How the body reacts to it (perhaps with somewhat emphasis on the negative aspects, i.e. pain, discomfort).
• How to perform treatment.
• How to not perform treatment.

Posix memalign (talk) 11:48, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Water and salt

both water and salt (in sufficient quantities can kill a person aswell. mention in article; not the most certain death however. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.245.181.52 (talk) 08:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Put something on to help people

Wikipedia is the first place that most people turn to to help them find out about stuff. So I reckon that there should be somesort of a link to a site that helps people work through their sucide wish so that they don't do it. I think that there are like RedCross things about it but I'm not sure. Instead of telling people the possible mothods, it should show who they can go to for help —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.215.239.188 (talk) 02:53, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

We need to ignore all rules or have some sort of Wikipedia community wide discussion and add some sort of information for help on this page. JustGettingItRight (talk) 02:14, 27 April 2009 (UTC)