Talk:List of musical symbols

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How extensive?

How extensive is this going to be? I don't see the value in this beyond what's already in the existing notation articles. Seems like it's mainly an image gallery, which is prohibited on WP. Anyway, the lines and spaces on a staff don't show the chromatic scale, but rather the diatonic scale. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wahoofive (talk • contribs) 04:54, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, this is supposed to consolidate all of that information into one article. And besides, someone reading a piece of sheet music will occasionally encounter a symbol of which he or she does not know its meaning. This article provides a very good "legend" to those symbols, and it should reduce, if not eliminate, the necessity of having to search the 'Net to find them. Denelson 83 03:37, 29 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

OMISSION There is no mention of the dotted note until section on the grace note. This needs to be included with a visual example as well. Thank You

Oh my. In the event that someone encounters something that they do not know I seriously doubt they would find it on this page – at least at the time I am posting this, this page is very partial.

I disagree that this page is useless. I can see that this might become a useful place for some people to turn to in the event that one comes across a symbol but knows nothing about what it's called. (How do you suppose someone would look up a mordent, say, or a tremolo, without knowing what it was called?) I might also add that some of the information could be expanded to include symbols, directions, etc. that are more specific to style -- rinforzando, for example. --Todeswalzer 03:06, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's basically a kind of stand-alone list article. Maybe it should be moved to List of symbols in modern musical notation? — Gwalla | Talk 22:56, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

SVG?

Ideally, the article would use SVG versions of all the notation symbols. Would this be feasible? Ppk01 23:38, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I think it might be more useful to also have the Unicode equivalents. http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1D100.pdf lists a lot of symbols not described here. --Connel MacKenzie - wikt 06:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Clefs

) I've been trying to improve the Clef page lately. The clef section here is admirably elegant and spare. But I think the Tenor clef could be added, since on the clef page it is listed, along with the treble, bass and alto clefs, as the fourth clef used in modern notation. (Other clefs are labeled "obsolete".) --Gheuf 19:37, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Tenor clef should probably be added. 212.143.66.129 11:13, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Quarter tones

Quarter-tone notation is not standardized. All sorts of different symbols are used, and the ones shown are some of the least common. Moreover, to this day quarter-tones are not commonly used at all in Western music; they are still experimental and likely to remain so.TheScotch 09:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think the "quarter tone" accidentals (a bit of a misnomer) should show examples of a few of the more common types. — Gwalla | Talk 22:56, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Missing: Natural Sharp

There's a missing bit of notation I recently ran across, and tried to look up here: the "natural sharp". After a double sharp a natural sign followed by a sharp sign indicates a "normal" sharp. Maybe someone who can work with the images on this page can add this? 67.40.200.194 17:20, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't seem like a distinct symbol, but rather two symbols being used together, with their usual meanings (natural = "cancel previous accidentals" followed by sharp = "raise by a semitone"). — Gwalla | Talk 22:56, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Microtonality

I think the quartertone signs et al should be grouped together rather than intersperced with traditional signs. Interspercing them gives readers the false impression that these signs are standardized. TheScotch (talk) 12:19, 16 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds reasonable to me. — Gwalla | Talk 22:56, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Articulation marks

Are pizzicato, harmonic, and bowing indications really articulation marks? TheScotch (talk) 12:22, 16 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, as the articulation is anything that is not merely the note (c' etc.) being played, but how it is supposed to be played. An up-bow has a different sound and appearance than a down-bow, and the same holds true for harmonics and pizzicati. T3thys::ben (talk) 22:54, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

C clef

Since the alto and tenor clefs are widely confused (even among musicians with degrees), it is unfortunate that this article doesn't gives us a separate tenor clef illustration. It's likely to exacerbate the problem. TheScotch (talk) 12:27, 16 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Missing: m.d. and m.g.

Busy learning flight of the bumble bee, have m.d and m.g (I think it's got something to do with crossing hands in piano), but I'd like to know exactly what they mean. Also if someone is thinking of responding that "That's specific to piano" I'd argue that ALL instrument notation should be on this page initially, and if the page gets too big THEN can start thinking of splitting it.

m.d. = "main droite" = right hand; m.g. = "main gauche" = left hand. —Wahoofive (talk) 07:16, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Missing "Melody transfer" (?)

Hi great article! I've been working on teaching myself piano and have been forever coming to this page to figure out what everything means. Just came across one that's not on here though: a diagonal line going from one note on one clef to another note on another clef. If I had to guess, I think it's saying that the melody part is switching from one hand to the other. I've seen this line both solid and dashed, but never wavy like the glissimo example. --jwanders^Talk 22:01, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It points from a note on one staff to one on another staff, I assume you mean. This indicates that an interior voice (whether or not it's a "melody") continues even though it's switching hands. This is especially common on keyboard reductions of choral music. I've never heard of a name for this line, though. —Wahoofive (talk) 22:47, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if we could call that a "symbol" as much as just a convention. That is, I don't think its use is all that formalized, and usually the composer needs to indicate whether it means to switch hands or is just there to help the performer parse the information. I think Webern even used it on chamber scores to help the conductor figure out which instruments were playing the main theme. (But I could be wrong on the composer.) Torc2 (talk) 22:50, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

missing "rip"

there is a notation (should be in the 'note relationships' section) for a rip, which is where on a brass instrument (only seen it for the horn, but it should be doable for any other instrument) where like a gliss, you play notes between the two notes, but instead of playing chromatically, you kind of force through each partial between the two notes. it is represented by a straight slanted line between the two notes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.177.164.231 (talk) 21:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fortississimo

Isn't there also fff for a fortississimo (I think that's what it's called), and a ppp for pianississimo. Even louder and even softer. -- 142.59.94.192 (talk) 20:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, some modern composers have even used four or five Ps or Fs. Musical dynamics are subjective and the use of more and more Ps or Fs is a direction for using the extreme range the instrument or voice is capable of. --Thomprod (talk) 13:34, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is too ambiguous. Can anyone expand on the meaning?

Current header of cleff section: "Clefs define the pitch range, or tessitura, of the staff on which it is placed. A clef is usually the leftmost symbol on a staff. Additional clefs may appear in the middle of a staff to indicate a change in register for instruments with a wide range. In early music, clefs could be placed on any of several lines on a staff."

I don't really understand what this is saying. How significant is the change in register? An octave? The minimum between the two clefs?
Lets say we have a piece of sheet music with a leftmost bass left.
The bottom line has a note, signaling a G. Then there is an in-line treble cleff followed by a note on the second to bottom line, also signaling a G.
Are these two notes in the same octave, or did it increase an octave with the register change?

I don't know, (and would appreciate any clarification) but also the article doesn't say. SFoster83 (talk) 21:22, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Normally the second note in your example would be two octaves higher, since the clefs represent fixed octaves. Even with transposing instruments, usually the transposition is the same in all clefs. One exception is French horns, which in some early composers tranposes down an octave in treble clef, but is at pitch (typically in C, not F) in bass clef. The uncertainty of this provides for some ambiguity in some early scores. But this is pretty rare.

That said, however, the most common changes are much less spectacular: instruments in bass clef (such as bassoons and cellos) often switch to tenor clef, for example, which only moves A-220 from the top line to the middle line. You can learn more at Clef. —Wahoofive (talk) 00:55, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An instrumental part may use a clef change to avoid having to use many ledger lines to indicate very high or low notes in the normal clef for that instrument. In modern choral music, the tenor (and sometimes bass parts) may be written in bass clef (sounding actual pitch) or in treble clef sounding one octave below. --Thomprod (talk) 13:44, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Revisions

I've made a few corrections on titles, punctuation, theoretically incorrect definitions, etc. Whoever has supplied the notated examples: would it be possible to find an image of a NON-INVERTED mordent, and also of an INVERTED TURN? We should also have illustrations of turns placed directly above a given note, and those placed to the right of the note (because of their different meanings). Also, can the key signatures have clefs? (Without a clef, they are meaningless.)

Another suggestion: Under "Ornaments", could anyone prepare a simple, two-column chart, showing "WRITTEN:" and "PLAYED:" (along with each ornament's name).

Thanks, anyone who can help with these matters! Prof.rick (talk) 16:08, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I added images for the non-inverted mordent, and the two requested turns. Also, I found images of the key signatures that include clefs. While I think it would be nice to add written/played columns to the table, I don't have time to do that right now... – jaksmata 20:07, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Missing

This article is quite informative. however, it lacks on other important figure in musical notation. What do a musical note mean and what is it's value if it has a double detached bar in between them? (i.e. like 2 Semibreves connected by a double bar at their tips which is detached) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Borninbronx10 (talk • contribs) 12:42, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you are talking about tremolo and we have a separate article about it: Please see Tremolo#Notation. The example you describe generally means "a regular and rapid alternation between two notes". I agree it should be added to this article as well. --Thomprod (talk) 13:24, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Plucking of strings on bowed string instruments

What symbol is used for asking the player to pluck the string with the right hand instead of bowing it ? I couldn't find it in the article. Ro —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.75.131.138 (talk) 10:11, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but check out the article on pizzicato. There's no picture, but there is a description of the notation. – jaksmata 14:44, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As the article mentions, music for strings is played with the bow by default. The Italian abbreviation pizz. is written at the beginning of a passage intended to be plucked rather than bowed, and arco is written to cancel the use of plucking and indicate when normal bowing resumes. --Thomprod (talk) 21:45, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

      I see, but the article only mentions left-hand pizzicato. Can someone add the 'pizz' and acro notations.Ro