Talk:City of London

Is the City of London a sovereign state?

Similar to the District of Columbia in the US?

If so, is this why institutions such as the Bank of England and Temple Bar reside within those boundaries - to allow the sovereignty of the Crown to self-perpetuate, within its own jurisdiction?

If not, indeed why do the world's key institutions (or at least their HQs) reside within these boundaries? Is there a specific reason why they are all grouped within the boundaries of the City of London?

Is it the same reason why the IMF, World Bank and Federal Reserve institutions reside in their own sovereign district in the US?

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.40.3 (talk)

Not really a query for this page. The City is sui generis, although it is within Greater London and residents are represented both with the GLA and European parliament. That means it has its own civic government and institutions, but it is within the the sovereign state of the UK, and those laws apply.

The institutions tend to be gathered in the City for propinquity reasons. In the good ol'days much business was done over lunch, and by the shake of a hand. With the introduction of electronic trading and settlement many of the institutions ran off to cheaper offices in Docklands - they no longer had to be in the bounds of a process called City Walks whereby bonds and money were transferred the same day by nondescript messengers walking between banks, and at time the headquarters of the main banks were all gathered around the BoE. Their back offices, or settlements tended to move, now the front office (or trading functions) tend to have moved too. Those functions of business and banking that require face-to-face contact, tend to still be near each other - so people can stick in several meetings in one day.

The District of Columbia is a US state (not quite, as it's the US capital territory), not a sovereign state within the international sense. Laws are the same throughout the UK, but specific state laws apply in the US. THE IMF and World bank are international institutions, and similar rules apply to their representatives, as to the UN. The Federal reserve actually has 'branches' in the major financial centre in each state, it's a Federal institution, so not surprising it has its HQ in federal territory.

HTH Kbthompson 14:12, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Additionally to Kbthompson 's comments: The City is not a 'Sovereign State' it is simply a local authority. 'Temple Bar' marks the site of the old west gate into the City - a Bar is a gate. The nearby Temple is the location of two Inns of Court (Inner Temple and Middle Temple)which developed within the old Knights Templar monastic enclave. Therefore the City does not have "its own jurisdiction" but the same as any other town anywhere else in the UK. As for "The Crown" you do not actually explain what you mean by this. If you mean the Queen and Royal Family then they have little authority in our constition, Elizabeth II is Head of State. The other use of the term 'The Crown' is merely a way of refering to the Government, so as we have "The Crown in Parliament". 79.72.81.131 (talk) 16:55, 27 August 2008 (UTC) Tony S

Thankyou for the indepth answer. It's interesting that many sources do position the City as a "sovereign state", but I'm wondering if this is just historical? The reason I ask is because over the past few years I have been researching the global dominance of the Crown (known as the "British Empire" by many) and the City itself was seen as the source of perpetuation for their unlawful (but legal) practises across the world (e.g. the Bank of England's fractional reserve system that was setup by the Monarchy to control the flow of its wealth, generated in the city). These practises, which I won't go into now, were legal (but not lawful) because of the self-regulatory codes and rules formulated at Temple Bar, also within the City's boundaries.

Many researchers believe this is how the Crown have managed to usurp power over parliament, and many MPs throughout history (not so much now of course) have warned of the few elite bankers and attorners that are able to manipulate their subjects through unlawful contracts, legal codes and rules. Many researchers I have read, past and present, have stated that soveriegnty was dissolved to the Crown and the bankers and attorners of the Inner Temples.

Fascinating stuff - but unfortunately, it's difficult for me to replicate the picture that has been painted in my mind after much reading on the history of the Crown and the City. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.72.40.184 (talk) 21:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Em, the only thing I can think of, in respect of City sovereignty is its sui generis status. This is because the City actually precedes the legal derogation of power to either crown, or parliament. However, it is submissive to both. (I'd look at The English Constitution, Walter Bagehot, 1876. ISBN 0-521-46535-4, ISBN 0-521-46942-2). Any actual subservience of the crown to bankers, tends to be associated with settlement of wars, or their gambling debts - which amounts to the same thing.

As to the monitory slight of hand known as the fractional reserve system, this merely reflects the tendency of most people to pay their debts. Actuaries can work out the risk associated with a loan, and thus work out a proportion of 'good money' to 'bad'. The system tends to work until you get a periodic crisis of capitalism, such as the sub-prime loan problem. Then the proverbial hits the rotatory dissemination device, and for some reason, we all end up with the bill.

Nice talking to you, but this is really a place for talking about the article, not questions about the world economy. Kbthompson 00:02, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.81.185.211 (talk) 16:21, 14 August 2008 (UTC) 

As simple as possible Your comments are bsed on some simple misunderstandings: Having read very many 'peculiar historical documents', as you term them, such as the City of London's 'Liber Albus' and 'Letter Books' there is nothing mysterious about the nature of the City at all - indeed its records are the most copious of any City in Europe next to Rome. The principal owners of the 'Square Mile' that is the territory within the City's boundaries are firstly the City Corporation itself, then the leading 12 Livery Companies and followed by numerous commercial investment companies, eg British Land plc. The Rothschild dynasty have never really been land owners but bankers. So that most of the land is either owned by public bodies, charities or publicly listed companies. Most banks and financial institutions are within the City boundary for historic reasons, the Royal Exchange, the Bank of England, Lloyds of London and the Stock Exchange were founded there; they had to be in one place just like in any other capital city or financial capital eg Wall Street, New York, Paris, Amsterdam or Frankfurt. As Kbthompson explained in the late 20th Century these have started to move out of the City because modern communications means that they do not have to be there. 79.72.81.131 (talk) 15:37, 27 August 2008 (UTC) Tony S

Goodness me. Some people believe some right rubbish. David (talk) 17:40, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Leading Centre of Global Finance

The article says: "The City of London is today a major business and commercial centre, ranking just below New York City as the leading centre of global finance.[1]"

However, the document [1] cited by the article shows that London ranks just above New York, though not in a statistically significant way. Another concern is that the document cited was published by the Corporation of London, which raises a question of bias.

Unless there is a range of supporting material I would recommend the article instead says that London is one of the most important global financial centres. Flux 21:11, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

The Corporation works closely with all of the leading companies and institutions to collatew material as to the UK's - effectively 'The City' - performance and standing internationally. It uses such information to lobby and promote these interests. Nobody challenged the statements when the City recorded in the 1980s that it was slipping behind other centres, and was third behind New York and Tokyo and being caught by Frankfurt. Therefore why challenge the research which now indicates its improvement ? The point is that the City cannot benefit from providing false information and status, it needs to know the truth to plan and develop strategy. 79.72.81.131 (talk) 16:38, 27 August 2008 (UTC) Tony S

Sui generis

It is a city and Ceremonial county now what is Sui generis about that ? --Barryob (Contribs) (Talk) 01:18, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

It is a unique entity in English and British geography and politics. The last remaining place governed by a medieval Corporation (it has never been replaced, unlike every other borough and city in the country) where the governance, elections, etc are completely different to the rest of the country. It does not fit in with the system of local authorities established in England - it isn't even a London borough. The only other sui generis place in England is the Isles of Scilly - a special district set up in the 1880s (IIRC) and which does not fit in either with the standard pattern of (non-)metropolitan districts and counties/London boroughs. The City is unique in so many ways. It certainly deserves the sui generis tag. David (talk) 13:05, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to agree. -- Jza84 · (talk) 15:27, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:StPaulsCathedral.jpg

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— Κaiba 22:08, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

How does a ship know when the time in a particular country changes?

Dear Sir/Madam: How does a ship of a navigator know how to calculate a time change in a aparticular country?

Regards,

Rosemarie —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.58.93.45 (talk) 19:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Dragons

I was always under the impression that the 'dragons' were, in fact, griffins. They are always facing out of the city and they are supposed to defend the City against corruption.