Talk:Mulatto

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Etymology section a mess and biased

This section needs a serious cleanup. Also, it's transparently biased in favour of the least likely etymology (according to experts on the Spanish and the Portuguese language), from muladí/muwallad, for some reason. FilipeS 12:43, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The bias has been changed heavily in favor of the theory that the word mulatto derives from the spanish word "mule", this is seen by the fact that the word mulatto is described directly as coming from "mule" in the first paragraph, whereas the word muwallad first appears in the next paragraph, etymology. Unless you can document one as being more likely than the other, then i see no reason why the "mulatto from mule" theory should be in the first paragraph solely !

i will see to this getting editted unless you can argue why it should not.--Partheth 19:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see no significant changes in the etymology section. FilipeS 14:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mulato is not "small mule" in Spanish. It's "mulito". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.183.136.193 (talk) 14:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am guessing here... but probably the word for mule and mullato and muwallad/muladi all share a common history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.223.131.118 (talk) 02:02, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Website sited for etymology seems inaccurate and biased. Other origination of words on site are inaccurate and incomplete. Site should not be used as a proper source. Please site other sources (merriam-webster may be efficient enough for sourcing), thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.215.67 (talk) 12:55, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mulatto, Mule

"(cur) (last) 00:47, 21 August 2008 Kman543210 (Talk | contribs) (19,277 bytes) (removed etymology; there is a difference between a definition and etymology; see mestizo, castizo, zambo; none have etymologies at beginning. See etymology section) (undo)"

Either way an encyclopedia must have accuracy if general knowledge is out there, not frivolous speculation. Of course words meaning change over time, but general knowledge is that mulatto means a mule. No matter how desperately you want to talk around that, the fact will always remain. I'm not saying that you can't describe yourself as a mulatto, but to remain intellectually honest as to its etymology. At this point, you may remove the etymology, or derivation of the word mulatto, but I will state the meaning of the word itself in the opening paragraph. Same difference, surely, but there really is no running from 'mule'. Sorry.

Note:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizo

Opening section: "The word mestizo originated from the Romance language / Latin word 'Mixticius', meaning 'mixed'."
So mestizo means mixed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castizo

Opening section: "Castizo or castiza is a Spanish word with a general meaning of 'genuine'."
So castizo means genuine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zambo

No etymology of any sort is provided.

Nevertheless, it will state that mulatto means a mule in the opening section. KumarFilo (talk) 01:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I shan't get into an edit war over something so silly, but I really don't understand your insistence on including the etymology at the very beginning. Mulato may derive from the word mulo meaning mule, but that is not what it means now. Including a full definition does not mean you have to include the etymology at the very beginning, especially since there is an entire section dedicated to this. How does the word coming from mule give the reader any more knowledge on it's present-day usage right from the top? Are you trying to give the word a negative connotation? Then including the Latin word from which mulo came from? That is way overdone in my opinion. I know I'm not the only one who feels that way because I wasn't the person who originally moved that out. Again, etymology is good to include, but it has an entire section, so it's unnecessary to put it at the top. Kman543210 (talk) 01:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was the one and I'll do it again. I already explained things on KumarFilo's talk page in good faith. What I was getting back can hardly called "assuming good faith". If he doesn't change his attitude and tries to work as a team I don't see any positiv future, to be quiet honest. regards, --Floridianed (talk) 02:11, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Whether or not this word, mulatto, receives a "negative connotation" by me stating the truth is not my concern. This is an encyclopedia after all, so facts outweigh any feel-goodisms. Like I said, the meanings of words change over time, sure, but the base meaning will always stay the same no matter how much you want to hide the history of a word from public view. I shortened it to include only the meaning and not etymology since for some odd reason you feel upset that mulatto means a mule. So I didn't include the etymology, I included the meaning of the word mulatto itself by stating "..Spanish word for mule..". Which is, to your chagrin, exactly how the other entries (castizo, mestizo) you provided, presented their terms in the opening sections. I'm sure the word 'mulatto' has taken on new meanings, by different people, in different regions today, but the fact of the matter is that the word itself 'mulatto' means 'a mule'. You can't really run from that. Sorry. KumarFilo (talk) 02:17, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You don't seem to get at least one point: It doesn't belong in the lead of an article about "Mulatto's" (people!!!!). --Floridianed (talk) 02:25, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Says who? All the other multiracial labels have the meaning of the word itself in the opening section. How is 'mulatto' exempt? KumarFilo (talk) 02:30, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Would you mind giving example-links? --Floridianed (talk) 02:32, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to clarify that mulato in Spanish does not mean mule, but it did derive from the Spanish word mulo which means mule, in the sense of a hybrid. Here is the official definition from the RAE:[[1]] No one is trying to hide the etymology of the word, as there is an entire section of the etymology (2 paragraphs). This article should not be about the term, but it should be about the people who are part black and part white. I disagree that the etymology needs to be at the beginning, but thank you KuamrFilo for at least trying to compromise on this, as I am concerned that you would state "it will state that mulatto means a mule in the opening section" without regard for any other editors' opinions. Kman543210 (talk) 02:42, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here are the examples:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizo

Opening section: "The word mestizo originated from the Romance language / Latin word 'Mixticius', meaning 'mixed'."
So mestizo means mixed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castizo

Opening section: "Castizo or castiza is a Spanish word with a general meaning of 'genuine'."
So castizo means genuine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zambo

No etymology of any sort is provided.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesti%C3%A7os_(Sri_Lanka)
Opening section: "In Sri Lanka, the names Mestiços (Portuguese for "Mixed People") or Casados ("Married") were applied to people of mixed Portuguese and Sri Lankan (Sinhalese people and Tamil) descent, starting in the 16th century."
So mestico means mixed people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapa
Right at the top: "In the Hawaiian language, hapa is defined as: portion, fragment, part, fraction, installment; to be partial, less. It is a loan from the English word half."
So hapa means a part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baster
Right at the top: "The name Baster is derived from the Dutch word for ‘bastard’ (or ‘crossbreed'). "
So baster means a bastard.

And so on. The bottom line is mulatto means a mule. So I will state that and include it. KumarFilo (talk) 02:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Now you slipped:"mulatto means a mule" (in Spanish. NO! It's by your own research "mulato", ONE "t" only). Let me remind you, we're talking about the origin of the word, remember? So anyway, again, don't just change it again. Thanks, --Floridianed (talk) 03:08, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I shall reiterate that the Spanish word mulato does not mean mule. I speak Spanish and would never even think of the mule if someone said mulatto. The word mulato derived from the Spanish word mulo which means mule, but that is not what mulato means. If you don't believe me, here is the official dictionary entry for mulato: [[2]]. There is a difference between meaning and etymology. Kman543210 (talk) 03:12, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're correct. Un "Mulato no es un Mulo" and un "Mulatto es menos un Mulo"! --Floridianed (talk) 03:17, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am Portuguese and I can tell you that mulato or mulata just means a person that has visible traces of black and white parentage. As to the etymology of the word I cannot say anything except that the connection with a mule, if that was the case, is definitely lost. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.134.45 (talk) 10:44, 29 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Of course "mulatto" may not literally mean a mule right now because words change meaning over time. But the fact of the matter is that "mulatto" is derived from the Spanish word for mule. It is this that is a fact. It is this which should be stated in the article. Etymology is the study of origins of words. Etymologically, "mulatto" originates from "mulo", or mule. And that's it. LzqTAnFKVf7 (talk) 05:53, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

African section

When was this last updated? "enough to be considered black under South African law". Whaaaah? The apartheid is over by the way. I am going to delete that part.--HandGrenadePins (talk) 20:49, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

just curious about melado

Hi all, not realizing the debate of the etymology of mulatto I always assumed the that the term "melado" was of similar origin. However, this does not seem to be the case. Does anyone have information on it's origin? Is it an actual dictionary word or is it slang? Would this term be considered derogatory by most people? I've heard it used in a non-derogatory way which is perhaps out ignorance and would like information so as to use or not use this word in future. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.77.71 (talk) 17:29, 31 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merged Some Tags ...

Removed all but the one as no process evident here and the one remaining the only one likely to be the basis of one. 72.228.150.44 (talk) 19:58, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also setting Miszabot to archive threads not active for 120 days. 72.228.150.44 (talk) 20:02, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Removed them all, ordered list. 72.228.150.44 (talk) 20:14, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mulatto are found all over the world...

List of countries:

.Cananda .US .Latin america .Asia .Europea .Arabe