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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Cinagua (talk | contribs) at 19:00, 16 July 2009 (→Compromised "round-up"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

1-10

[1]

I need a brief article written in proper Chicago format about a company, and published on Wikipedia. Looking for writer that already has Wikipedia account and has published a few articles already, which were accepted by the Wikipedia community. The article should not be promotional in nature; I'm looking for an accurate biography and factual information to be published. Please email links to work, and a price quote for a one-page article.

Sounds like a job for User:Zithan

That's not going to happen. MER-C 13:07, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[2]

I need someone who can create an encyclopedia article. for the Bridal Association of America and Kern County Bridal Association. The article need to have all the factors required by wikipedia.Please see wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Your_first_article for detail on what they are looking for.

When creating these articles please write contact than can link from other pages on wikipedia like wedding dresses, wedding cakes, etc

This article need to be written with code so I can just upload it to wikipedia.

Payment is contingent on acceptance by Wikipedia
If you have any questions please contact me <snip>
Thank you
Kyle

Bridal Association of America

[3]

We require an experienced Wikipedia editor to submit an entry for us that relates to our company. You will need to have proven experience submitting entries, including citations, hyperlinks, notes, etc.

The submission should adhere to all of Wikipedia's...

... content and behavioural guidelines, perhaps? Nah. US$ 120.

The rest of the post goes "...requirements and be fully professional.". MER-C 13:07, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
User:Cinagua/Technology Sales Leads. MER-C 04:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[4]

1. Sixteen (16) articles ranging from 300 - 500 words on email marketing. I will supply keywords and topics. The articles are for SEM submissions.

2. One Wikipedia copy 500 - 1000 words describing our email marketing software and related information. We will submit entry.

3. 3 Press Release articles ranging from 200 - 500 words on features related to our software.

Email marketing software... heard that one before.

CANCELLED. MER-C 07:29, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[5]

Hi,

We would like someone to upload a wiki page with reference to a non profit company and make tweaks and adjustments to the content to make sure that it fits with the wiki style and gets approved

Please revert back with previous examples of existing wiki pages that you have uploaded that are currently live on wikipedia.

Successful completion of work will lead to lots more work in the future.

Revert? Don't you mean report?

CANCELLED. MER-C 04:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[6]

Need a professional Wikipedia Article/ Biography written for myself. Need photos posted as well as links to other websites, and Wikipedia pages. Need completed as soon as possible.

Article should adhere to all of Wikipedia's guidelines.

US$ 50.00.

See WP:COIN#Cindy Cohen. MER-C 06:35, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
DELETED. MER-C 06:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[7]

We need someone with experience in Writing articles about websites to promote them and write all the technical aspects and market the website online. We also want someone who has done this before and knows where to submit the articles to generate traffic and recognition of the new site.

US$ 50.00. See

[8]

Looking for writers who can create wikipedia entries for high profile individuals. The project is being undertaken by an alumni association to profile the achievements of its successful alumni population.

Writer will be provided with a list of names - roughly 100 to start with and then more on an ongoing basis. Writers job would be to research the person (LinkedIn, profile details on corporate web site etc) and write + post a wikipedia profile on that person.

Looking for a bid per profile creation. Initial bid can be for 100 profiles.

[9]

Need Wikipedia Biography written.

Wikipedia has strict guidelines and rules and need writer familiar with Wikipedia standards.
I already have guidelines and links just need writer to put it all together "Wikipedia Standard"

Simple & easy

O RLY? US$ 70.00.

Kaki West. MER-C 04:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[10]

I need someone to write an article for wikipedia meeting all the site's requirements. We need someone to write an entry for this profile [obscured] -khoo.com/about. We'll provide you with the press releases for your reference as well.

Zithan is bidding on this one. Looks like a new sockpuppet coming.

Addendum: Googling the URL fragment points to [11].
It's been deleted once four times before. MER-C 09:02, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Zithan was the successful bidder. US$ 130.00 MER-C 03:30, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

11-20

[12]

Create a corporate wikipedia article. Most of the content already existis in the from of a corporate brochure and website, but will need to be modified to fit wikipedia's tone. Provider will need to be familiar with IT terminology and have wikipedia writing experience.

US$ 270. Zithan got this one, definitely another sockpuppet. MER-C 07:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Now spying at Elance. Fifteen queued tasks is dangerous enough. Alexius08 (talk) 12:57, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This task is likley related to Icontrol/NetworkD/Sparxent. Hipocrite (talk) 16:39, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Warning: a wave of weakly-sourced biographies is coming within three days, as per my espionage at this request.


We should search for these articles through our logs at Special:Newpages. Any article that would cite a LinkedIn profile and/or a corporate web site as sources should be tagged with {{db-bio}}. We should exterminate all of them. Alexius08 (talk) 11:42, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]


[13]

I am looking for someone who is VERY FAMILIAR with online sources for the new media, advertising, digital media, emarketing industry!!! THIS IS REQUIRED. Looking for someone we can use long term. This one will last 5 weeks. $10/week. Create 20 links per week according to the terms below. MUST have a way we can communicate.

If this goes well, will have other work.

Our site is a new media site in need of promotion. Currently a PR 5 but more traffic is needed! We need a Wikipedia page created AND

What we are looking for is the following...

CANCELLED. MER-C 04:32, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[14]

Link Building for 2 websites.(107 per page) -> 214 in total

WE ONLY CONSIDER EXPERTS WITH TOP REPUTATION (PROS ONLY)
MAX BUDGET WE HAVE IS $500 USD

1 website (Consultancy & Training)
1 website (Training only)

Project length: 10 weeks

100 permanent per page, relevant Inbound links per website

Link Building speed: around 10 links per week

<snip>

  • Both website need a directory listing in www.lii.org
  • The consulting page needs to have a link from www.youtube.com

---

Both pages need a permanent link from www.wikipedia.org
Don’t care if it is just a link or a complete page about the website business.
THEY MUST BE PERMANENT THOUGH

---

Also both pages need to have 1 inbound link each from the following wikis:
www.citizendium.com
www.richdex.org
www.webopedia.com

www.aboutus.org

Can't guarantee that. Sorry (or not). MER-C 11:57, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

CANCELLED. MER-C 08:29, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See also User:Ha!/paid editing adverts. MER-C 14:12, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Identified another one from here:

Submitted on July 1, 2008. Deletion logs found at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=&page=MarketResearchAgencies.eu&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&hide_patrol_log=1 (Ranging from July-August 2008). Relevant pages found: User:Kerekesg/Marketresearchagencies.eu and User:Kerekesg/MarketResearchAgencies.eu (Created June 14, 2009). I suspect this is an attempt to restore the speedily-deleted page. Alexius08 (talk) 15:25, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[15]

My name is Robert. I work for Larry A. Thompson ( [obscured] )/( [obscured] ). Mr. Thompson would like some semblance of the text from [obscured] on Wikipedia. An entry has been established under his name on Wikipedia. Do you have the ability to broaden the entry to include all of the data on [obscured] without drawing scrutiny? He does not want his current entry deleted. What are your thoughts?

Ha, ha, you've already been noticed!

[16]

Need a person who can post an article on Wikipedia .

Only those with experience apply.

I have set up a recent user account.

Related: [17]

I need someone to rewrite a Wikipedia article that our office posted.

The article is on aerial advertising.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_advertising

We need a sharp writer who can write English well

[18]

We are looking for a highly qualified Wikipedia writer/editor to create several (up to 12) Wikipedia entries. The writer will obtain information from some sources that we will provide and their own research to put together descriptive and informative pages along with a picture for each of the pages. Additionally, this person should be able to edit existing Wikipedia pages so that they are complaint with Wikipedia rules and regulations – familiarity with these is a MUST and they should easily be able to handle any warning messages that may appear.

Only highly qualified individuals shall be considered.

Please provide examples of current pages that you have created.

Tayzen is bidding on this one. One more sockpuppet from him and I will propose a community ban.

For Elance, I also noticed you can tack on a referrer string (e.g. &rid=18J3T) and get the whole posting without registering, so I completed the above snippets. MER-C 13:07, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Found two more. MER-C 02:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Buyer was dpatel799 => [19].

Spammers so far:

US$ 1800.00 to Tayzen. Will the banhammer come down in time? MER-C 13:05, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[20]

We need a wikipedia page created- content and all. preferably someone who has done this for other companies. We will expect it to be updated often so it will be ongoing work.

Once assigned and project compelted you will probably have the task of creating pages for clients of ours as well. Small budget but we are a midsized firm and it will result in TONS of other work.

[21]

I need someone to help with editing and submitting a bio for Wikipedia. I tried to submit on myown, but recieved many errors. I would like to get this done ASAP. Thanks

[22]

A dynamic yet technically skilled writer to write a piece on an up and coming fashion designer. The biography and about the label piece has been written perhaps just some tweaking is required to sound more dynamic etc

Research to cross-reference is required as previous career was in music with EMI and quite a bit before internet and websites etc

All info will be provided but it must go through Wikipedia and it must result in info being listed

Only a few weeks left, urgent job as client will be showing at London Fashion week shortly

21-30

[23]

You will be asked to look up all of our school websites at [obscured] and find these schools on Wikipedia. Not all schools will be present but the schools that do have Wikipedia entries should get spirit shop external links to show the Spirit Shop as school's official online store.

Example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_High_School_(Phoenix,_Arizona)

go to the external links and you will see an example entry

This is the code for this store
*[http://www.spiritshop.com/school/Arizona/Phoenix/Central_High_School-138820.aspx Central High School Store] - official online store

Each Spirit Shop School has a different code that you have to look up on [obscured]

Spammers so far:

 Defer to Local blacklist MER-C 10:08, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[24]

Bosko singer /songwriter / producer needs assistance in updating and expanding his existing online presence, to showcase his talents as a singer/performer and promote his new album which is a blend of Soul and Hip-Hop.

The qualified candidate will be experienced in the following:

  • Email blasts,
  • Myspace updating
  • Youtube Uploading
  • Facebook maintenance
  • Wikipedia description creation and updating
  • Creating profiles on music and social sites
  • Applying SEO/meta data
  • Ensuring style associations are correct on Lastfm, Itunes, Pandora and other similar sites
  • Uploading music to online music stations
  • Twitter maintenance
  • Music business viral marketing

Please submit proposals in 2 parts. The first proposal is to include a price for

  1. Identifying 20 top music and social networks that fit the artists demographic and
  2. Creating new “Bosko” profiles on these sites.
  3. Creating a Bosko Wikipedia page
  4. Identifying the top 20 appropriate net music stations and providing them with a copy of Bosko’s new music
  5. Correcting the music association on Lastfm, Itunes, & Pandora
  6. Uploading Bosko’s music to 10 other sites similar to Lastfm and Pandora
  7. Input of SEO/meta data
  8. Create matrix of sites (online spreadsheet of sites updated, with last date updated, link to profile, and any other pertinent notes)

[snip]

Your bid should include the number of revisions your are willing to make before BoskoLive.com is satisfied with the final product, and your proposed start/completion date of part 1 (no more then 2 weeks please).

Groan, not more band vanity. MER-C 08:02, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[25]

Here is our situation:

Our client tried publishing a Wikipedia article about themselves. They mistakenly included marketing material (click here to view our website... email us for information etc.) and therefore the article was quickly deleted. They now say that they cannot get their article published.

We need an experienced Wikipedia writer to help us get their article published. Writer will be asked to format the content the client provides to conform to wikipedia guidelines. Page must be submitted and appear in main wiki without deletion.

We prefer someone who has an active account and can provide examples of their pages.

[26]

We have a Wikipedia page that needs editing. Some pictures need to be added to it, some more information, and it needs to be linked in other articles. Currently the article is an orphan.

I'll provide the pictures for you, and they all belong to me so there's no copyright issues.

I don't want to post the Wiki page here because of the search engines, but I'll gladly send it to you once you bid.

[27]

I need someone with an EXISTING wiki account who actively contributes to wiki and has a good reputation to list my company. I will supply some details but you must write the listing in an unbiased way. I'm not looking to SPAM, I just want my company listed in a fair and unbiased manner because my competitors are listed there.

By posting that request, you and your freelance writer are spamming. MER-C 06:58, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[28]

Thanks for looking at my project!

I need somebody who is fluent in Wiki formatting to write, format, and post six related Wikipedia pages. I can provide you with all the research; I just need you to pick through the documents (which will be provided to the winning bidder) and write a standard Wikipedia page for each topic.

I need one fairly long and detailed page about a person, two medium-length pages about documentaries, and three medium to long pages about punk bands. Again, I will provide you with all the information you need, so you will not need to spend any time searching for information.

Thanks for your interest and I look forward to reading your bids!

[29]

Please do not bid unless you are very familiar with posting articles on Wikipedia.

I am seeking an expert writer that has strong editing skills for an article written about a Bible Scholar. I also need someone to post the article on Wikipedia with photo. I'm seeking someone who is very familiar with Wiki standards and formatting and can easily get the job done. The article must be academically written since Wiki is an online encyclopedia.

I have about 3 pages written but it needs that professional clean up and editing. At this point I've written the basic article in MS Word and it's about 3 pages long. You won't need to do anymore research on content. At this point it is probably too wordy and will need to be condensed. I've also referenced most of the links Wiki requires but I've probably over referenced them so I'll need the provider to know what is appropriate.

Great communication is key as well as excellent writing skills that meets encyclopedia writing standards.

Finally - somebody that recognises that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia! This one might be acceptable. MER-C 09:25, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Buyer was BKelson, google:bkelson => [30] => google:Brian+Kelson => [31].
... or maybe not. MER-C 07:52, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[32]

Hello

I need a an experienced wikipedia writer for some pages. The writer must have experience in creating pages comforing to the wikipedia guidelines. He should have a regular user account. It'd be great if you can show some of your live wikipedia pages.. one or more.. any one wikipedia page submitted by you will work as a sample so I know you're the right candidate.

Can pay $20-35 per wikipedia page (500-600 words)

I'll give a base content/draft. You need to make it acceptable to wikipedia after necessary changes so itbecomes live in main wiki without any scope of deletion after few days...

Please PM with your wikipedia user profiles and sample pages.

Tayzen

This stuff corresponds to Elance user Tayzen.

Spam pages and sites spammed

Elance job #17066545

Elance job #17194393

Elance job #16233022

Elance job #17095851

Elance job #17148585

Elance job #17023988

Why have I labelled Punta del Diablo and Boutique hostel as spam? Because El Diablo Tranquilo is a boutique hostel in Punta del Diablo. I suspect both pages were created for the purpose of housing links to eldiablotranquilo.com (the links probably will be inserted when the article goes live).

Elance job #17074602

Elance job #16181621 and #16275596

New: [38]

It seems to fit, but why is Southerntulip in the Netherlands when I suspect he's this guy?

New: [43] and [44]. Profile says company is "bakkenrunning". Google points to:

New: [49] and [50]. Buyer was knowaboa => [51] => [52].

New: [57] Examples are basketball coaches. Could be:

New: Elance job #16785420

New: Elance job #16359187

  • See here for related domains. Something to do if you have more free time than I.
Stuff not matched up yet

Pattern 1:

Article created to house link to spammed site.

Pattern 2:

Pattern 3:

Again, articles created solely to house links to the spammed site.

Pattern 4:

Pattern 5:

Pattern 6:

Once again, articles created to house links to the spammed site.

Pattern 7:

  • "Copyright © 2008 Nebraska Cultures, Inc."

Pattern 8 (?):

Spammers
  • Cross-wiki spammer, see [86].
  • Cross-wiki spammer, see [87].

[88]

Hi there,

I would like to apply for this project, possessing three years of experience in this field, now with about 11000 edits, accumulated in creating wiki content in Wikipedias in various languages, under the username Desiphral (at Romani Wikipedia I am also admin). Only on the English Wikipedia my work counts currently about 4000 edits in 1300 distinct pages:

http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?username=Desiphral&site=en.wikipedia.org

I have a good knowledge of organizing a new Wikipedia article, if you provide me the links for citing and processing the info in Wikipedia style. I may provide articles in English, Spanish, French and Romanian Wikipedias (the languages that I know well). Usually, more Wikipedia articles, better for the subject they treat.

I am currently available Monday through Sunday and can be reached online by Yahoo Messenger or Skype.

Other notes

MER-C 13:07, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Amalgamated duplicate report. MER-C 08:07, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've checked the English Wiktionary for external links matching the patterns given. Only one page matched, and that was a transwikified Wikipedia article, which I've deleted. Uncle G (talk) 04:28, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Additional spammer. MER-C 08:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Compromised "round-up"

There are already some weeks of "rounding-up" and, by now, some conclusions may be drawn. As a result of the lack of real interest in addressing the issue of paid editing, this "round-up" became just a vehicle for incompetence, power abuses, personal vendettas, free speech suppression and suspicions of vested interests. The main problems (mostly inspired by the article 2009 Paid Editing Investigations on Wikipedia):


-selective round-up resulting in the rigging of the bidding process on online marketplaces

The "round-up" is not focused on actually dealing with the paid editing input, it is only focused on boasting and parading a few "bad guys". The indirect result is an influence in the bidding process, favoring the non-hindered people. The Wikipedia jobs keep coming on the Internet, only that other people win them. Those who do the round-up simply end up having a role in the bidding process of the marketplaces, raising suspicions about vested interests.


-bias against non-Western users, with "outsourcing" backgrounds

The first person considered as an easy victim was an Indian student. The second Elance account spotted, of John Bulten from USA, although possessing an impressive Wikipedia history of jobs on Elance, did not provoke any reaction besides a few tags on his articles. The next Elance account targeted by the round-upists, Tayzen, is too much a non-Western one.


-the hysteria around paid editing produced a favorable environment for making "perfect crimes" and personal vendettas

The very tip that created the row has the features of a personal vendetta. The screenshot presented as a proof of the activities of the Elance account was taken at the beginning of this year, showing a "Last sign-in" of the owner on 28 January and displaying only the feedback he received during 2008. This while the owner of the account was active and worked on Elance in all the months until June. YellowMonkey knew about this Elance account and its Wikipedia-related work at least since January of this year. An in-depth research reveals that both him and the squeaked user live in Australia and share a common interest in cricket (somehow a recurring theme there). This invalidates the claim of an unselfish tip of a random discovery, as it was presented to the community. This is further confirmed by the way YellowMonkey paraded him inside and outside Wikipedia as a "bad guy", with an obvious goal of public shaming. Nobody bothered to ask about these obvious facts, the Wikipedia authorities played to the tune of YellowMonkey and the account of the Wikipedia user presumed to work on the behalf of the Elance account was quickly blocked. It is noteworthy to say that Jimbo considered that an explanation from the targeted user would be enough, this accusation would not entitle ending the years-long career of a valued Wikipedia user.

...also the case of Desiphral, named for days a paid spammer, without any proof (in fact, even at the moment of writing this text, in the above "round-up", Desiphral figures as "spammmer"). The user was not active on Wikipedia for a lot of time and he was not announced by e-mail about the public shaming.

Quickly, in the discussion place there appeared users seemingly having some previous grudges against Desiphral, using the opportunity to request his block. Additionally there appeared some at least dubious users requesting the closure of the Wikipedia founded by Desiphral (in the language of a certain minority of Indian origin widely discriminated). In a normal (or better said, a previous) communication process at Wikipedia, such conclusions would have been dismissed as a good joke, but it was not the case here.

The language and the conduct of this episode suggests a combination of muting the dissent and a seizure of the opportunity by some people who have a problem with the respective user and/or with the Wikipedia he started.


-suppression of free speech

Another disturbing pattern of this "round-up" is the suppress of free speech when users try to point out the murky side of the recent frenzy. We learned this by ourselves, when, several days ago, we tried to bring our arguments in the discussion. To our surprise, the text we added in order to draw attention to the circumstances of YellowMonkey's "discovery" was deleted after half an hour. Few hours later both the account of our team and the one of our spokesperson were blocked. Somewhere else on Wikipedia it followed a tragicomic dialogue between some users wondering which would be the official explanation of the blocking, for this "first shoot then ask" approach. Finally someone found a provision saying that organization accounts are not permitted, it must be an individual account. Well, even admitting this pretext, this does not entitle the blocking of the spokesperson. The reason added there, that the individual account would be a sockpuppet (in Wikipedia jargon, this means an account of another user, used for deceiving purposes, to create the illusion of more people), is untrue and childish. The spokesperson mentioned clearly the relation with the other account and this is permitted on Wikipedia. Even the initial "informer" has two accounts (1 2) clearly mentioning the relation between them. In this manner, even now the account of Wicked Pundit is blocked without any reason complying with Wikipedia rules, presumably because some users considered it is better to mute us.

...and the case of Desiphral

Somehow unexpectedly (given the current atmosphere of fear and adulation at Wikipedia around the issue of paid editing), besides complaining about the attempt of public shaming, he started to point out the unprofessional manner of conducting the current purges. There followed some retorts, then... silence. When we contacted Desiphral to find out what exactly is going on there, we learned that his account was blocked, but the blocking notice was hidden somewhere in the talk page, not displayed on the user account, as it is the common practice at Wikipedia. The "death sentence" was done on the sly, after talking too much, somehow reminding of our attempt to talk openly there. We found the blocking reason really sarcastic, namely that "he indicated he permitted the use of his account for commercial purposes" (without showing where exactly was that indication, while we could not find anything of this kind in his replies). Even if it would have been true, this is not a punishable offense on Wikipedia... only you'll get intro trouble with those who do not like this. The accusers changed later the reason for blocking to "group account", because he permitted some years ago some people to learn how to edit, using his account. Obviously, a pretext, the same "first shoot, then ask" pattern, since the casual teaching of other people did not amount to what is understood at Wikipedia as a "group account", plus that the respective user was not active on Wikipedia for about a year and a half and at the time scale of Wikipedia such old issues are not considered when judging an user.

The most ironic thing in all this affair is that those suspected editing on behalf of Tayzen are free to edit even at this moment (although they keep being hindered), while the one who was wrongly accused to associate with them was taken to the backyard and executed on the sly for sulking against the conduct of the purges.

Cinagua (talk) 20:21, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The reason that you and Nichalp were "targeted" is because you abused multiple accounts in an attempt to spam, and further you and Nichalp grossly abused the community's trust and your power for your own profit (Desiphiral is the only admin on the vlax romani wikipedia). Please stop spamming Wikipedia... you are aiding and abetting those who would shamelessly use wikipedia to promote themselves. Triplestop x3 21:28, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

...and now a sample of the "round-up spirit". No intent to assume responsibility for the damages, the answer resumes to even more personal attacks, including an user who is out of this issue and went through checkuser to prove it. Who is damaging Wikipedia here? Regarding the "aiding and abetting" part, there is a discussion, where you can post your views for the public scrutiny. As one can see there, the issue is certainly not painted in black and white. If you have extremist views and if you consider it is up to you to decide right from wrong, the result is this "funny" round-up, with no possible results from the start (as long as only a few are targeted, it would simply help those not targeted) and prone to abuses and hijacks of the cause for personal vendettas and other muddy things. And, by now, these are the serious problems created for Wikipedia, with a long-term discrediting potential. Cinagua (talk) 14:02, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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