Talk:Nonverbal learning disorder

Definition could be improved

I think the definition could be improved. The current definition states that NLD is "a frequently misdiagnosed state of anxiety, confusion and social withdrawal". The current definition strongly emphasizes anxiety and social withdrawal. Both symptoms are found in NLD, but with the exception of Asperger syndrome, which is one of the causes of NLD, they are not primary, but secondary symptoms. An improved definition should state that NLD is a developmental or learning disorders with manifestations in the following domains: a) somatosensory and motor functions; b) visuospatial and visuoconstructive functions; c) arithmetics; d) social cognition; e) inferential reasoning. Psychopathologically, externalizing symptoms predominate in the preschool and early school years, often confouding with attention-deficit/hyperactivity and oppositional-defiant disorders. Towards the preadolescent and adolescent years there occurs a gradual shift towards internalizing symptoms related to anxiety and depression. Internalizing symptoms may be best thought of as a consequence of long-term academic and social-interpersonal failure, a reactive disorder. Social isolation or awkwardness constitue also important manifestations of NLD, which occur as primary symptoms mostly in Asperger disorder. In many patients social isolation is also a consequence of long-term social-interpersonal failure. Disorders in the social domain may be best conceptualized as lack of social cognition and, consequently, social abilities. Individuals with NLD have difficulties generalizing from one situation to other and learning from experience, finding difficulty interpreting the subtleties encountered in social interactions, which may involve, for example, nonverbal gestural and facial cues and figurated discourse such as irony, cynicism etc. The intentional goals of a conversational partner may be transmitted more by facial expression than by the explicit verbal content. Messages at both levels may be contradictory, and individuals with NLD may selectively pick the verbal meaning, ignoring the nonverbal meaning. Social isolation and social awkwardness is a primary symptom in Asperger disorder, a frequent cause of NLD, but not in others, such as X-fragile syndrome in females. Females with the X-fragile syndrome look shy and are frequently characterized by low self-esteem, but do not look awkward nor primarily isolate themselves.

Someone with an account should rename this page to fix the spelling error. It also needs more information, specifically about the link with Asperger's syndrome. [1]

• Renaming of page done. Excellent link! I agree the article needs more information in general. . . the link you provided is a start. There's much more to add, which will take time. Appreciate your comments above. --avnative 11:43, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

This page needs to be merged with dyspraxia entry. As far as I know they're the same thing. Anyone know differently?

No it is not the same as dyspraxia.

I second the above comment NLD is NOT dyspraxia. For example most children and adults with NLD are exteremly eloquent. People with dyspraxia may apear clumsy because their bodies do not respond apropriately to what their brain is telling them. People with NLD may seem clumsy because they visually misperceive their surroundings. 65.125.163.221 02:35, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm kind of busy right now and still learning the ropes on Wikipedia, so I'm not sure I'll be able to fix it myself for a while, but I do feel that I should point out that this:

NLD generally presents with specific assets and deficits. The assets include early speech and vocabulary development, remarkable rote memory skills, attention to detail, early reading skills development and excellent spelling skills. In addition, these individuals have the verbal ability to express themselves eloquently. Moreover, persons with NLD have strong auditory retention.

The four major categories of deficits and dysfunction present as follows:

• motoric (lack of coordination, particularly on the left-hand side of the body, severe balance problems, and difficulties with graphomotor skills). (Dyspraxia).
• visual-spatial-organizational (lack of image, poor visual recall, faulty spatial perceptions, difficulties with executive functioning and problems with spatial relations).
• social (lack of ability to comprehend nonverbal communication, difficulties adjusting to transitions and novel situations, and deficits in social judgment and social interaction). (Dyssemia).
• sensory (sensitivity in any of the sensory modes: visual, auditory, tactile, taste or olfactory).

is taken word-for-word from NLDline, cited in the references. It should be paraphrased or at least cited properly. Geektastic88 (talk) 04:53, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I've always found it amusing that the acronym was 'NLD' and not 'NVLD'... I suppose no one likes to be considered an invalid though. - A. Hollander —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.136.3.178 (talk) 11:13, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I think someone who knows more about the disease should discuss how close NLD is to Aspergers what the differences are between the two. I heard it used to be the difference was the person with NLD wanted friends and the person with Aspergers didn't. Has that changed? Tydoni (talk) 16:26, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Kutscher made a comment like that in Kids in the Syndrome Mix, though if memory serves correctly, he qualified his remark by saying it was a simplification. Anyway, you're right: It would be good to contrast NLD with Asperger Syndrome. I think it's also worth noting in the article that some experts put NLD on the autistic spectrum. Kutscher's book would be a good reference for that as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SgtSchumann (talk • contribs) 20:42, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the NLDline blurb better captures NLD vs. the current article content which confuses primary vs. secondary and is overly psychiatric sounding. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.1.47.198 (talk) 01:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

we should mention how ten years ago the definition for NLD and Aspergers are different from what they are now and that people who were diagnosed with NLD over ten years ago would likely be diagnosed with Aspergers today Tydoni (talk) 16:17, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

I propose moving the overview section to the top of the article and moving what is currently the first paragraph of the article to the end of the overview or to a separate section with a new title such as "developmental features" or "Secondary features" or some such. 24.1.47.198 (talk) 15:54, 21 March 2009 (UTC)Don Van Duyse

I think this would be a move in the right direction. There was a time when this entry characterized NLD exclusively as a mood disorder. There have been some good edits since then, but we still have farther to go. -- SgtSchumann (talk) 01:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

The term NLD is really misleading

I think that many forms of "nonverbal <learning> disorder" is really a form of (unknown) pervasive developmental disorder with better theory of mind, like pathological demand avoidance or some cases of McDD (Imagining autism).

It is especially about this people with NLD diagnosis, who has obsessional interests, OCD, stereotypical behaviours, good visual-spatial skills, lack of eye contact, many "schizoid" traits.

They just have better theory of mind but are... high-imagining autists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.6.122.19 (talk) 13:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

You asked the same question at Talk:Diagnosis of Asperger syndrome #NVLD vs AS, and I followed up there. Eubulides (talk) 21:30, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Clarification?

Can I... possibly get some clarification on a claim made of the similarities between NLD and pervasive developmental disorders? That one of the similarities is abnormal spiritual beliefs? And If so, can someone possibly explain to me how that makes any sense? --Amaraiel^{Send Message} 21:00, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I propose deleting references in this article to abnormal spiritual beliefs since it does not appear to be supported by established literature on the subject and is more an impression or speculation so far as I can tell. I also think the whole article needs to be looked in terms of removing psychiatric speculation. Anything like this that is not backed up by a source should be trimmed away24.1.47.198 (talk)