Talk:Lonesome Dove

Origins - (Feb. 2006)

The real origins of Lonesome Dove can be found in the movies Bandolero and Cheyenne Social Club.

Bandolero in particular is easily seen to be the basis of LD. Just read LD and watch Bandolero. Just listen and read for the names of the characters and what they do in the movie and the book. Several characters have the exact same name (e.g., July Johnson, Dee Boot, etc), and do the same thing in the book and movie.

Check it out if you do not believe me.

4.231.104.131 (talk · contribs) at 23:53, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

McMurtry's original screenplay dates from the same period as Bandolero! (1968) and Cheyenne Social Club (1970), both written by the same screenwriter, James Lee Barrett. However, on the basis of plot descriptions, the central theme of McMurtry's novel, a cattle drive, does not seem to be a feature of either of these films written by Barrett.

The likelier source is a cattle-drive novel Log of a Cowboy (1903) written by Andy Adams. McMurtry's novel follows the events of this novel almost scene for scene, and there are also similar character names and incidents.

66.74.12.59 (talk) 16:45, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

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Um, the similarities of Bandolero and Lonesome Dove are not really open to debate. Your statement that "the central theme of McMurtry's novel, a cattle drive, does not seem to be a feature of either of these films written by Barrett" avoids the issue.

I guess I have to expand this out for you (well, you are not really interested in whether there are any similarities. That is clear. But I do so for those who might actually BE interested.

1) there is a sheriff named July Johnson in both Bandolero and Lonesome Dove. Both of them are looking for their wives, who have run away. Any objective observer will note that July is an extremely rare name. In fact, outside of Bandolero and LD, I would bet that you would not find one person in all of moviedom and literature named July.

Kind of a coincidence, huh?

2) Both LD and Bandolero have an outlaw named Dee Boots. Kind of an unusual name, Dee Boots. Boots as a last name? Basically unique.

There are at least 5 other similarities, which I will not go into.

Deets & Blue Duck - (Aug. 2006)

I've read Lonesome Dove and watched the mini-series repeatedly, and I don't remember any reference to Deets being an escaped slave. Further, I don't recall any reference to Blue Duck's ancestry. I may have missed these details, though, or were they stated somewhere other than Lonesome Dove? 216.39.180.60 cneron 22:37, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Blue Duck is the half Mexican son of the Comanche war chief, Buffalo Hump, whose other son Call shoots in the Brazos River in "Dead Man's Walk". In "Comanche Moon" Buffalo Hump banishes Blue Duck because of his disobedient ways. As far as Deets goes, he says in "Lonesome Dove" that he came to Texas from Louisanna. In "Comanche Moon", McMurtry's narrative tells us that Deets was a slave stolen by a chief named Wildcat and that Deets escaped in transit to Mexico. After taking shelter in the Ranger's stable, he is accepted by Captain Innish Scull into the Texas Rangers. Read "Comanche Moon" it's even better than "Lonesome Dove" believe it or not. 68.66.232.46 (talk · contribs) - 21:02, 6 October 2006 (UTC) & 76.178.61.130 (talk · contribs) - 09:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Latin Motto - (Sep. 2006)

Does anyone know what the latin motto that was on the ranch sign meant? I have wanted to know for years.--The Emperor of Wikipedia & Protector of Wiktionary 05:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Uva uvam videndo varia fit: "A grape changes color in seeing another grape". 68.66.232.46 (talk · contribs) - 21:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I did not read the book, but in the miniseries, it does NOT say the above motto, it says "...viVendo...", which means "living." A grape is changed (made into a different grape) by living. http://alkek.library.txstate.edu/swwc/ld/ldex081a1.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.106.195.150 (talk) 17:12, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

The best translation I've been able to come up with is "Grapes which ripen together, ripen well". There is actually some grammar issues with this saying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.91.172.36 (talk) 11:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Maggie - (Dec. 2006)

Lonesome Dove never gives Maggie's last name as Dobbs. In fact, Newt was told growing up that his father was a travelling salesman named Dobbs. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.71.28.137 (talk) 14:53, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

Mangled Latin - (Aug. 2007)

This article needs a discussion of the meaning of the Latin phrase -- how it relates to the plot and characters -- it's not there simply because Gus is a pretentious phony intellectual.

If you take the incorrect version (vivendo instead of videndo) as Larry McMurtry's conscious intent (Gus knows no Latin), it can be interpreted as something like "a grape changes in the process of living". This, of course, is exactly what does not happen -- none of the characters change.

This is a disconnect with the article's statement that "Along the way, the Hat Creek boys revisit old regrets and losses and come to terms with their past." This is not true. Other than Newt, who begins to mature, the characters are no different at the end of the novel than they are at the beginning. This seems to be a recurring theme in McMurtry's stories -- people "respond" to stressful situations by not changing.

In reviewing the plot summary, I'm tempted to add at the end, "And lots of people die gruesome, pointless deaths, typical for a Larry McMurtry western novel." But I refrain. (15:44, 15 November 2007)

WilliamSommerwerck 19:57, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

It's typical for Larry McMurtry NOW. "Lonesome Dove" pretty much set the template for that sort of thing. Claude 21:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Article Condition - December 2007

This article is a certified mess. It's purportedly about the book, then begins listing actors when it discusses the plot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.124.112.210 (talk) 04:25, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

In this particular case, I think it's because the two are so intertwined. The novel started as a TV movie script, which nobody picked up, so McMurtry turned it into a novel. When that took off, suddenly there was interest in the movie again. This also explains why the movie is so faithful to the book. Claude (talk) 05:26, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Whatever the cause, it is still a mess. The inclusion of "played by"s is jarring and amateurish. To give this a B rating makes a joke of the assessment system.--Reedmalloy (talk) 21:04, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

References - June 2008

This article is in dire need of references.

See: Wikipedia:Citing sources - and - Wikipedia:Verifiability

There has to be some Lonesome Dove lovers who will step in and refify this article.

Thanks, saddle up! ~ WikiDon (talk) 21:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

True, it was in "dire" need, but there's no need to go listing a citation template in every section. Just list one at the top of the page. Banaticus (talk) 18:20, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

If the entire section does not have references it is supposed to have a blanket tag over the entire section. Otherwise you would see after every sentence. Also if you add one per section it is easier removed as the section gets cited. Also if you blanket and entire page, and one reference is added in any section then you have to remove the one over the whole page and place individual ones. Swampfire (talk) 18:38, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

My apologies to whoever wrote it, but I edited out the reference to "Robert Urich playing the part of the cowboy who was hanged by his friends" in the Origins section. It seemed an unnecessary plot spoiler. I myself read it when I was halfway through the book. If it's necessary to mention the hanging (and I'm not sure it is) it seems like it might be more appropriate in the Plot section where it's less likely someone will stumble across it before they're ready to know. Otherwise, an interesting and informative article.

Llamapix (talk) 18:43, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

An image is up for deletion

File:Robert Duvall in Lonesome Dove.jpg

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An editor has nominated the above file for discussion of its purpose and/or potential deletion. You are welcome to participate in the discussion and help reach a consensus. Thanks. Just tips me hat but then 〜on thought bows deeply … 06:43, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeesh!

I have gone through and removed as much about the film and TV series as I feel comfortable with, and moved it to Lonesome Dove (film). The feeling I am getting from reading discussion pages is that the TV series and the film articles started long after this one, and they were never cleaned up. I am editing other articles and arrived here tangentially, but thought I would do at least that much. If I am in err, please restore and note as such on this page why all of the TV stuff belongs here so no one will move it again. LonelyBeacon (talk) 06:31, 16 August 2009 (UTC)