Talk:Knanaya

Knanayas ROCK!!

I agree wholeheartedly.I would just like to point out a few problems with this page.

1)Although it has been a redirect from the (Arch)Diocese of Kottayam, the article includes mention of both Syro-Malankar and Syro-Malabar branches of Syriac Christianity

2)The same people are called Meyuhassim or Malabari Jews, and their relatives who have chosen to revert their faith to pure Halakhic Orthodox Judaism are called Cochin Jews. Altogether they form one branch of the Kerala Jews divided on issues of belief in Jesus and skin-color from other Kerala Jews. At the same time they practice Endogamy and prefer to marry each other regardless of faith and never marry non-Meyuhassim, though they have married Meshuhararim.

3)Their language is Judeo-Malayalam regardless of whether their faith is Syriac Christian or more Jewish.

I think because of the complex nature of this ethnicity it needs a project I would like to propose a Mehuyassim project it will cross over the divisions of this unique Judeo-Malayalam culture and clear up misunderstandings.

Zestauferov 12:20, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I would actually like to learn more about the inquistion of the Cochin Jews. I'm by no means an expert, but I'd think, that Nasrani should either be merged with Saint Thomas Christians or with Knanaya. --Pjacobi 23:18, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

Nasrani as an Ethnic community

You stated that the pages Nasrani, Saint Thomas Christians or Knanaya should be merged.

No, it would be erroneous to do that. The article Saint Thomas Christians deals with the Nasrani people of Kerala as a religious group and seeks to describe its religious denominations and other related aspects. While the article Nasrani deals with the Nasrani people of Kerala as an ethnic people. (infact see the category in which the article Nasrani is listed at the end of that article).

In the same way that there is a significant difference between Jew and Judaism, there is a difference between Nasrani and Saint Thomas Christians. Jew deals with the entire ethnic community of the people of Jewish heritage and descent, or those people born of a Jewish mother. But Judaism is the religion followed by the ethnic community of Jewish people. The two concepts do highly overlap and are related but nevertheless they are independent in basic aspects and is treated as different.

In like manner, the nasranis is an ethnic community and in that sense a single community. However the ethnic community has various denominations as a result of the portuguese persecution. As an ethnic community they refer to themselves as Nasranis refering to the common cultural heritage and cultural tradition. However as a religious group they refer to themselves as the Mar Thoma Khristianis or in english as Saint Thomas Christians refering to the various and diverse [[[denomination]]s between them in terms of their religious tradition, despite a common ancestory of being the descendants of the early Mar Thoma church or Saint Thomas tradition of christianity.

The Knanaya people on the other hand is another denomination within the Mar Thoma church also called as (Mar Thoma khristiani) meaning Saint Thomas Christians. However they are a distinct community within the Nasrani ethnic group. Because of their long endogamous tradition.

This aspect is already written in the first paragraph of both the articles. Please read them carefully. Else this article would have been merged long back. The article Nasrani deals with the traditions of the nasrani community as an ethnic people and their present life (which has to be expanded). Robin klein 04:31, 12 May 2005 (UTC) [reply]

You stated that Knanaya christians hail from southern part of Israel Kingdom and the other Nasranis are from Northern kingdom. Do you have any evidence or strong arguements for this? It is believed that the southists lived in the southern part and Northists in northern part of Kodungalloor(Crangalore). As far as I know, this is the reason why they are called as Thekkubhagar and Vadakkumbhagar. What do you think of this?

St.Thomas converted many people from South India. They were not only Jews but also some Brahmins (and other castes as well; the shapes of early century churches were exactly the same as a Hindu Temple in architecture, u can see of them still existing in Kerala). Not all of them continued their faith till this time. Some of them went back to their previous community(or religion as Hinduism is not a religion but its a tradition) in various part of the history. I have read somewhere(I think it is in 'Origin of st.Thomas christians' by Fr. Benedict Vadakkel) that the Nair community is 'old christians'. Because in the past, the marriages among the Brahmins and Nairs were popoular. Also, marriages between Nairs and Nasranis were popular in the past. If that is the case, I do not think that Nasranis alone are the people with jewish ethnic origin. In 'People of India'(I dont remember the exact volume-I think in People of Kerala-Vol 3), it is stated that the typical Keralite has the physical properties of Dravidians and Jews. Also, the muslims in the northern Kerala are the mix of the middle east and the natives. So if you talk about an ethinic origin, more or less it is applicable to some other communities in Kerala too, belonging to other religions. Can it be summarised as below?

Knanates have a more pure form of Jewishness than compared to other nasranis.( Of course, they also got mixed up with natives. Otherwise they might have had the physical appearance of Jews- you can see many blacks among them too) Other Nasranis might have more mixed up in the early centuries with natives. Some of them returned back to their old religions becos of some reasons What do you think of this?