Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fight history of Bruce Lee

Fight history of Bruce Lee

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The topic is not notable, since Bruce Lee who was an actor throughout his career and not a professional fighter, did not participate in official tournaments and thus, unlike real sportsmen, lacks an official fighting record which could be referred to on the basis of solid sources. Combing through the entry reveals the unsubstantiality of most of its contents:

3. Quotes about martial arts and fighting skills is trivial and thus needs to be removed anyway
2. Fights Without Date / Anecdotal / Speculative is precisely what the heading says
1. Fight History by Date consists of scattered references to brawls and street fights in Lee's early wild days. The evidence rests mostly on hearsay from eye-witnesses. Only one of Lee's few semi-official fights took place within the framework of an organized event and none in a regular martial arts series. It is clear from that that Lee was never a real tournament fighter and that the oral character of the - invariably awed - accounts of his other fights naturally frustrate any encyclopedically useful attempt at an objective evaluation of his fighting capabilities.

Most of us are fascinated by the movie icon Bruce Lee, including me, but the whole entry is a thinly disguised hero story and as such unencyclopedic to its core. The two episodes which had indeed an impact of Lee's life and career, his teen brawls in Hongkong which led to his remigration to the US, and his unwillingness to stop teaching non-Chinese in his Oakland dojo, should be transferred to Bruce Lee, the rest discarded. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 14:57, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: On a closer look at the main entry Bruce Lee, there are more dubious forks such as The awards and honors of Bruce Lee and Physical fitness and nutrition of Bruce Lee, but I will leave their discussion to others. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 15:05, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@ Gun Powder MA: To say he was (only) an actor through and through would be the same as if you say Arnold Schwarzenegger was an actor through and through, never a bodybuilder or politicain. If the name of this page would be "Fight RECORD of BL", i would totally agree with you, because he wasn t a so called "professional fighter". But what is a professional fighter? A sport figther or tournament player. But c mon, fighting and martial arts is much more than tournaments or sport. When people claim "Bruce Lee was not a tournament fighter", they re right! But to say he was not a (street) fighter is not true. If we start to relate ANY comments about fighting to sport records, we have also argue about the claim that the Samurai Miyamoto Musashi was involved in over 60 duels during his lifetime, and never lost one. No "official" source exist for his fights, but it s no reason to delete this claims.

- his fight against Wong Jack Man is documented, just two different opinions (Linda Lee Cadwell claims it least about 3 minutes. Wong himself claims 25).
- his fight against Boxer Gary Elms in a Hong Kong Boxing tournament is mentioned in many documentarys. I am sure you could find more sources about it by visiting Lee s former school in Hong Kong (La Salle College), because it was a school tournament. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.97.227.220 (talk) 19:58, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- all quotes in section "Quotes about martial arts and fighting skills" are well documented (just check out the references).
- the opening thread stats "some by date, some without", so any reader can judge for himself what he want to believe, especially the section "Fights without date / Speculative / Anecdotal".
- to claim the whole page is unsourced, undocomented etc., is not true.

Other example: Go to the wiki site of Wong Shun Leung, who was the teacher of Lee. You re gonna find a statement like "Wong reportedly won at least 60, and perhaps over 100, street fights against martial artists of various styles". Should we delete this as well, just because Wong was not a "professional fighter" too?

Professional Fighters: Fedor Emelianenko, Muhammad Ali, Semmy Schilt
Street Figthers: Lenny McLean, Geoff Thompson (writer), Wong Shun Leung

Both should be mentioned and taken serious. It s not fair just to consider professional fighters and ignore street fighters.

Finally i hope there come more people and talk with us about it. Because i don t think 1 or 2 people should judge about remove a whole site. Best Regards 188.97.227.220 (talk) 20:03, 25 February 2010 (UTC) CB (talk) 21:04, 25 February 2010 (CET)[reply]

Comment: I agree we need to hear more opinions, but in the end we have to decide with a view to the standards established by the documentation of fighting records of true professional sportsmen. These can be nicely summarized from and solidly referenced through official statistics and all kinds of sports almanachs, but for Bruce Lee's inofficial fights we are reliant on the (rose-coloured) oral accounts of (self-declared) eye-witnesses. This is not an objective way and contradicts the very nature of an encyclopedia. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 23:36, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep informative article that might interest many readers. Str8cash (talk) 23:24, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I am sure a list of Bruce Lee's pre-marital dates might interest even more readers, but that can hardly be our criteria for keeping, can it? ;-) Gun Powder Ma (talk) 23:36, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nota bene: [1] --87.79.143.161 (talk) 00:11, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]