Talk:Tubular Bells

>>> The article states "The opening theme, which was eventually chosen for the 1973 film The Exorcist, gained the record considerable publicity and is how many people have probably first heard the work." Does 99.99999999999% constitute "many"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.67.104.4 (talk) 16:52, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

"Plus Tubular Bells" lyric dispute

That's not "Plus tubular bells" (classic cut-n-pasted miscreant misquote), that's not "Glass tubular bells" (though sounding close), please listen to the actual track at 22:50-55 before changing this: brass... tubular... bells!

Well, I've listened to the actual track, and the 2003 version with John Cleese as MC and it seems to me that it's "Plus... tubular bells". Furthermore, in the discography by Richard Carter hosted at mikeoldfield.org it says "Plus", and it seems a quite reliable source. Whadayathink? :)

I agree with the above. I've listened to it and I can't hear it being anything else than "Plus". Also, due to the evidence of the 2003 version as well as that website which is, to my knowledge, one of the best sources of accurate information on Mike Oldfield, that the main article should be edited to show this. Bennity 02:43, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Of course it's "plus"!NH78.147.153.185 (talk) 17:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

According to my knowledge, Mike Oldfield tried to sell the first version of Tubular Bells to different music labels, but all refused to release it. When he met Richard Branson, Branson decided, together with Nik Powell that they will take the chance to publish the record, because they were convinced, that this could be sold successfully. This record was the economical basis for Virgin Records and Bransons further business success story. Could anyone confirm or correct this or it this just a myth? Floridaadler 09:21, 21 Febuary 2006 (UTC)

Floridaadler, you´re right in that this recording became the basis of the virgin empire, at least in the beginning. But they weren´t too convinced that it would be succesful, and after they recorded it they tried to sell it to a music label at the MIDEM in Cannes, being only Mercury Records (the one mike is with now) interested on it, but requiring mike to add vocals on it.

They didn´t like it, so Branson thought that, as he already had considered to launch virgin music stores' own label, that could be its first album. But without too much hope on it...

Geltrú.

I didn't think it was called virgin music stores until after Virgin Records became successful - the name Virgin records comes from it being a label for "virgin" artists - i.e. artists that haven't had record deals before. They didn't stick to this, but AFAIK, that was the origin of the name, and it just stuck. The significance of this album for the Virgin empire is significant enough that the airline has named an aircraft after it [Tubular Belle].

Also, shouldn't "Tublar Bells (edit)" be mentioned, which was released as a single.

Rjmunro 14:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the first Virgin record store (under the Virgin name) opened at least two (possibly three) years before Virgin Records and Tubular Bells were launched. According to the London Evening Standard, the name "Virgin" comes from the (alleged) "fact" that Branson is sex-obsessed, although since the Standard is a tabloid this claim should be taken with a pinch of salt pending further research. -- 217.171.129.69 (talk) 05:36, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

If anyone wants a quote (from page 116 of Richard Branson's autobiography "Losing My Virginity", Revised Edition, ISBN 1740511832) "Although Simon [Draper] and I [Richard Branson] loved Mike's music, we never thought that we'd make any money from it". Yay unto the Chicken 02:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Heh. When I read that an airplane was named after this album, I immediately thought of the iconic knotted airplane of the film Airplane!. --205.201.141.146 22:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Title

It has been mentioned in many bios and by Oldfield himself that the original title of the piece was "Opus 1" and in fact in his original home recording there were no tubular bells. Shouldn't this be noted in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.255.249.210 (talk) 10:44, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

It is already mentioned, if you read the recording sessions section. TubularWorld (talk) 16:43, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Klingon Lyrics

One piece has a series of lyrics that sounds like they're sung in Klingon. I would certainly welcome a discussion on this matter; the current article fails to mention it entirely.

--Pjf 04:58, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The vocal passage that you are referring to in Part Two is indeed discussed here. These vocals by Mike are credited as "Piltdown Man".

EPC

This is what sounds like "shuggah wah nath dog wah now!" This is clearly a part of the influence of the music being included in the soundtrack of the Exorcist, IMHO. The book calls for the girl to scream blasphemies, which could not be played and accepted by very many listeners. The fact that it says "dog" is clear evidence that it is backward-masked English for God. I have Adobe Audition, which allows reverse playing; I have heard the "Hidden Message" in Pink Floyd's "Empty Spaces". I will have to load in Tubular Bells, reverse it, and see if I can give a transcription here. Nirigihimu 18:18, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that you are right there. Tubular Bells wasn't written for the Exorcist and I believe that Mike wasn't even told about its inclusion until the film came out. --80.229.152.246 16:07, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Mike would have had to have been told because to do otherwise would have been copyright violation. I'm in the entertainment bizness; tis Simply Not Done. The current "Sopranos" commercial using the song "Don't Stop" is costing A&E big freaking money baby.... Here is the best transscription I've been able to get, keeping in mind the cd is relatively new issue and could have been edited:

"I wanna fuck (hush!?)" repeated about 4x; the hush also sounds as if it could be "wash", "Elvis", and "boys", or all four, in that order. "Hush, hush, hush" or whatever about 3 times, howls and screams, "I wanna fuck, I wanna fuck!" more howls and screams "Hush, hush, hush!" howls and screams. I did not find any mention of the name of Jesus, which is the in the book by Wm. Peter Blatty. Have a nice day! Nirigihimu 19:47, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Mike did not have to asked (theoretically), as he is not the copyright holder, Virgin-Emi is! TubularWorld 20:16, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm reasonably sure it's a Klingon love song --Huffers (talk) 23:35, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

There's one major flaw with this argument; Klingon, in the form which we are discussing, was not used in the Star Trek universe until the first motion picture in 1979. Of course Tubular Bells precedes this incarnation of Klingon by 6/7 years. SkeletorUK (talk) 23:40, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Re. Nirigihimu's first comment, does this mean that every reference to dogs (in whatever context) is a disguised religious/blasphemous reference? I don't think so. (And to my mind "blasphemy" is more or less a null concept anyway, as most so-called "blasphemers" aren't taking the name of their God in vain.) -- 217.171.129.69 (talk) 05:24, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Some more info that may be helpful: Piltdown Man is the skull of a prehistoric caveman found in England, which turned out to be a hoax. Click the link for info. I've always thought of Mike's vocals as caveman talk inspired by Scottish and Welsh languages. As to whether he's actually saying anything, the only thing I can hear is "shove it!" near the end, but given the other things you people are hearing, your guesses are as good as mine. In the 1960s, Mike and his brother Terry were in a short-lived rock band called Barefeet (or Barefoot; I've seen both names in "official" biographies) and did a song called "Growling Song" which contained incomprehensible vocals, and is supposedly the inspiration for the Piltdown Man section; however there are no recordings (as far as we know) of this or any other Barefeet songs, so it's not known if it's really the same song. Back to Tubular Bells, nobody ever seems to point out the backing vocals, which are clearing chanting "boot leg" (and later, "leg boot"). Back when Virgin Records was a record importing and mail order distribution company, Richard Branson got arrested for selling bootleg records, so this is Mike's dig at his new boss. Also note that the dog on the Hergest Ridge album cover is credited as "Bootleg, the Irish Wolfhound from the Manor". Obviously, Branson's employees were allowed to joke about the situation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by A Knight Who Says Ni (talk • contribs) 01:13, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I can't believe none of you have tried listening to that section backwards. Piltdown Man is almost perfectly intelligible if you play it in reverse.

Bracketed note on alleged drunkenness

This needs to be handled better somehow:

[* - Note this is baseless rumour and has since passed into urban folklore]

Can someone please a) find a reference, and b) improve how this info is incorporated in the article? As it stands it's bad form. 18.173.1.42 15:37, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Tubular Bells and the Mail on Sunday

In the UK, a copy of the original studio recording of this album was given away with the Mail on Sunday on 22 April 2007. 217.43.197.166 12:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure weather to include info on the mail on sunday givaway - the only reason to, would be the fact that mike wasnt asked about it before hand. Mankind 2k 16:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Meter

Actually, the first part is not entirely in 7/8. Let's say every note played is 1/16th, then it is 7/16 - 7/16 - 7/16 - 9/16. Listen closely, after 3 repeats of the 7/16 riff, it is repeated with two additional notes, making it 30/16 altogether. Of course, if every played note counts as 1/32nd then we would have 30/32 altogether, which reads better. I will correct this soon. Regards, 84.56.125.45 08:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC) MikeB

I agree with this reading - (3 x 7) + (1 x 9) - it all adds up to 30 which gives 15/8, but 7 + 8 is not the 'feel' that I hear, rather, 3 'shorts' + 1 long...i.e. (4 + 3) + (4 + 3) + (4 + 3) + (4 + 2 + 3)...comments please?

The first bar is actually in 7/8 then a bar of 8/8. Which overall is 15/8. Mike explains this on page 111 of his Autobiography, Changeling. Mankind 2k 16:33, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

la-mi-si-mi-sol-la-mi do-mi-re-mi-si-do-mi (7/8) + si-mi-la-mi-si-mi-sol-la mi-do-mi-re-mi-si-do-mi (4/4) Horacio Aguilar 23:42, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

MikeB has it correct. Find the sheet music and the guitar tabs and you'll see. Though I've seen it quoted as 7/8 7/8 7/8 9/8. The fact that it adds up to "30" as someone says above, makes sense I guess for the "15/8" argument, but yeah if you listen to all four bars, the last one certainly has an extra beat in there so I'd argue for the 9/8 change. The leading note will fool you, so don't forget to put the leading note in the previous measure when you are counting :). User:feelie75 5:53am, 16 Sep 2006 (UTC)

(one leading 16th:)... + | A+B+GA+ | C+D+BC+ | A+B+GA+ | C+D+BC+B+ | If you read note names and + (as E or "and"), and add them up, it's 7/16 - 7/16 - 7/16 - 9/16. (or eights, if the smallest division is 1/8) The bar division is |2+3+2|2+3+2|2+3+2|2+3+4| I've only seen it that way in transcriptions. (Horacio's version has one eight too many in the third bar and misses one eight in the fourth bar btw.) In the Autobiography version, the stress wold be on the melody notes for the first riff, then on the e's for the next, then on the melody notes, then again on the e's, which doesn't make sense at all. Mathematically it's the same (7/16 + 7/16 = 7/8 and 7/16 + 9/16 = 8/8), but musically it's a totally different rhythm. -- megA (talk) 17:04, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. I cannot hear the opening riff as anything other than 7+7+7+9. Well, actually, I've always "felt" the opening 7 as a kind of "pickup", so that the melody feels like 7+7+9+7, but that's clearly my own problem, and not what Oldfield intended. Which makes me wonder whether I could hear it as a slower 7+8, and that I might be just "stuck" on the 7779 reading. Anyway, this can't go into the article, because it's original research. I'm very surprised that Oldfield explicitly plumps for 7+8 in the autobiography, but if that's what he says, that's what we have to go with. ACW (talk) 23:32, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Castle in the Pyrenees

Was Trevor Key really inspired by Magritte's "Castle in the Pyrenees" or is it just very similar? They are almost identical, but i have found no real references for it. Anyone know for sure? Mankind 2k 16:28, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Bad wikipedia

Wow, lets fuck up wikipedia with lame dhtml - why the hell is there suddenly a "contents" field floating over the text (bad design that is why) hopefully this will go away and a return to proper normal html will be seen.

Controversy Section

Magma drummer/leader Christian Vander claims that Oldfield had listened to Magma record before he wrote the album, and that Oldfield stole some of Magma's music in Tubular Bells. He has stated so in several interviews, such as I have reproduced below: "A man called Mike Oldfield did steal my music - to be more precise, extracts from "Mekanik" and "La Dawotsin". When we recorded "Mekanik Kommandoh" in 1972, Oldfield was waiting for recording "Tubular bells", which is in fact an extract from my music. I played this music for him, without guessing that h would steal it for him." Source:http://members.aol.com/sleeplessz/batmag.htm

Perhaps this could be incorporated into a Controversy section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.181.248 (talk) 08:46, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

What section of Tubular Bells to be exact? As there is recorded demo evidence that Oldfield recorded some sections in 1971, a year before this supposed ripping off... These 1971 demos are available on the DVD-A of TB2003. TubularWorld 15:50, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Wikipedia is also not meant to have any Polemical statements, as it is an encyclopedia. Tbh if this Vander fellow was actually serious about Oldfield stealing his work, there would have been a law suit, and as there hasn't been, all of this is just hear-say really... TubularWorld 16:38, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Bad intro section

I feel that this article's intro section should be entirely rewritten to more generalize the content of the article. It should say at least SOMEthing about the influence this album has had on the music industry. Tubularbells1993 (talk) 19:22, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll make a new draft intro in the next few days, and see how it looks. --TubularWorld (talk) 21:04, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

This subject may be more appropriate in the "significance" section. TB1993, what do you recommend the changes say? I'm not really sure if it had a great influence worldwide, unless you are thinking of it being a contributing factor to the development of world music as a popular genre, which seems to have happened a decade later. TB certainly had a major influence on how the Virgin label developed, but did it really influence the industry as a whole, and did it have much of an impact in the USA? I always thought of TB as an album that should have had more influence than it did, as it seemed to point to a new dirction progressive rock could take, but prog rock was on the decline by 1973, and its styles firmly established, so I don't think other classic bands were too influenced by it. --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 17:57, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

What I meant was, per WP:LEAD, it doesn't adequately summarize the article. I'm not saying its impact was too drastic, but it still deserves a mention there. Instead of mentioning the album's success in brief, it jumps straight into Vivian Stanshall and his work. It should hook the reader rather than going off into something best mentioned elsewhere in the article. Just generally, it needs a rewrite. I am not entirely sure what it would look like but it might say something like, "The work has been sampled continuously many times by many artists," and goes off to name a few (particularly the biggest ones) rather than having an unnecessary trivia section that takes up a large amount of the article (and a bigger danger being most of it is not sourced). Tubularbells1993 (talk) 04:29, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I presumed you meant influence regarding style, and how it affected subsequent music by others. I'm not sure sampling is notable demonstration of influence, and I think I might prefer examples to be mentioned in a cover versions section, perhaps titled "covers and sampling". Regarding the problem of sourcing info about cover versions, I usually look to see if I can find it referenced at the artist or album page at WP (which should be wikilinked, and I add the link if it's missing), and if I can't find it, I remove it. If someone really wants to have it added to the article, they should repond by finding a source. If we're going to mention sampling, we should mention that Amarok contains a strange sample in which Mike took the entire 50 minutes of TB and compressed it into something like 1 second (or maybe it's a little longer?) and used it as an instrument sound. (Read it in a fanzine interview with Mike, should be possible to source; I'll do a search of the dusty archives if necessary.) --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 11:48, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

bumting maytee ;)