Talk:Demonic possession

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Christianity: Charismatic Redirect‑class

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Objectivity

This page doesn't seem to really be talking about demonic possession so much as the belief in demonic possession per charismatic Christianity. Where is the anthropological perspective? And, as mentioned below, what about demonic possession in other cultures? In literature other than the Bible?

Culture specific

This page seems to be focussed entirely upon the christian take on demonic possession. This is curious seeing as the vast majority of cases (and sincere belief therein) are found in buddhist cultures like those of Thailand and China. Christian demonic possession is more or less an entire subject of unsettling fancies used to populate low grade movies. Asian demonic possession is so accepted in it's veracity that it is actually accepted in modern day courts of law (specifically Thailand). Yet, no mention. [/anonymous bitch] 60.242.175.202 16:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree! A (as yet rather sketchy) Jewish viewpoint on possession at Dybbuk

Mr FFB 00:04, 13 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The prevolence of Demonic Possession on western culture is more than "an entire subject of unsettling fancies used to populate low grade movies" if you are unaware of its cultural impact thats fine, but it is a far more relivent subject.Coffeepusher (talk) 17:21, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article POV

Maybe I'm just too sceptical, but this article seems to be pretty NPOV on the existence of stuff like telekinesis. I don't have time to fix this now, but I'll mention it anyway. - S

I think you mean POV. NPOV=good, POV=bad. And yes, we need a sceptical person who knows what they are talking about to fix it. -- Tim Starling 12:25 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)

It seems that a NPOV is not so neutral because it depends on the POV of each person, so many people prefere to consider all the stuff of "mysterious movements" as demonic action and so on. NPOV seems to depend on the personal belief and formation of people, but... it is only another POV, trying to be a NPOV. Just an opinion. A not NPOV is "thanks, S, for not signing your concept of NPOV providing a link to your user name, and so nobody can know who thinks so", it does not seem to be so neutral; it is easy to criticise when your identity remains hidden. As another explanation (to you and any other person who thinks so), if I do not know what I am talking about, I just do not talk, it is neutrality as I think (another POV), but this will become a Bizantine discussion, so, the end... for now, and forever, I'd wish. And if you want a sceptical person, you can be sure that I am one. My conclusions, dear S, were based on scientific American, British and Russian studies, studies made at the University of Palo Alto, California, and the studies of the late Spanish Jesuit Francisco Gonzalez Quevedo, who was so sceptical that laughed when explaining religious POVs on "demon possession" and refuted them with a so scientific NPOV that many eccesiastical authorities were about to forbid him to participate in televised interviews. Have a nice day, the day you read this. The Warlock 06:22, 31 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Oh, and dear S, if you only have a user number, not even a name, just besides of writing hear, I do have a user name, you could have written this and drop some lines to me too. It would have still been more neutral. The Warlock 07:36, 31 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Warlock, please read Wikipedia:Neutral point of view carefully. --Robert Merkel 07:42, 31 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Telepathy & Telekenisis

Warlock, I've made an edit to the page. Most notable is probably the added introductory paragraph to place the rest of the article in context, and the removal of the paragraph discussing scientific views of telepathy. telekenisis, and premonitions. You state that telepathy and telekenisis are accepted facts and the subject of extensive scientific study. I don't think that's accurate. In any case, I don't think the discussion of it actually added anything useful to the article (which is about demon possession rather than telepathy or anything else), so rather than rewriting it I simply truncated it. --Robert Merkel 23:51, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Should we include a section explaing the views of those who accept demonic possession in the present day? I'm from a pentecostal/charismatic background and have seen what I would describe as possession as well as exorcism, and I do not see these views represented here, but rather a naturalist viewpoint seems to predominate.

Title of Article

Shouldn't this article be called "Demonic posession" as demonic is the adjective form of demon? RedWolf 22:16, Dec 19, 2003 (UTC)

Superstition

To call the belief "superstition" is to put a point of view label on the whole article. It can be argued later in the article that demonic possession or the belife in it is supersticious through a scientific view possibly. But to label the belief as "superstition" is POV which would go against Wiki policy. Dwain July 5, 2005 15:39 (UTC)

Nonsense. There is no scientific basis for demonic possession, and therefore belief therein is unambigously superstition. Labeling it so is certainly not POV, only the factual truth. Fawcett5 5 July 2005 16:44 (UTC)

Power corrupts eh? This is your opinion and it is not needed the article is NPOV how it is, "Demonic possession is the belief in a form of spiritual possession..." That works fine without your personal beliefs or opinions. Dwain July 5, 2005 17:24 (UTC)

"an irrational belief arising from ignorance or fear" is pretty NPOV to me, superstition does not mean "it has no scientific basis."

According to one of the definitions from dictionary.com

superstition - A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance. Sounds pretty biased, and POV to me

Biblical Links

All the biblical links were broken, so I rerouted them to the necessary verses at Biblegateway.com, and I added 2 new ones out of Acts. I didn't read them all through, though, so I'm not taking any responsibility towards the content/context of the verses; only that the links work. Cyril March 5, 2006 19:23 (Central Time)

Demonomania

I was thinking there needed to be a full section on Demonomania, which gives a little more of a scientific explanation. But, then again, that might give it more of a POV. Anyone agree or disagree?

Demonic possession in modern society.

Maybe a section entitled 'Demonic possession in modern society' should be included on this page. --Alan Алан アラン 21:11, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New Age view of demonic possession

I added a section on Carlos Castaneda, and some references and links. Where materialism views demonic possession as a symptom of mental illness, this New Age view is that the reverse is the case; and that we’re all mentally ill. It is because of our collective demonic possession that modern humans are so self-destructive and mean to one another. According to Castaneda’s teacher Don Juan, modern human civilization is essentially demonic in origin. Humans’ constant inner dialogue of self-reflection is a post-agricultural invention. Ancient humans, like infants, couldn’t think very well; but on the other hand they had magical powers which we moderns have lost: “Man must have been a complete being at one point, with stupendous insights, feats of awareness that are mythological legends nowadays. And then everything seems to disappear and we have now a sedated man … trite, conventional, and imbecilic.” (p 223). According to this view, freedom from slavery to the demons can only be obtained by mastering inner silence, which starves the demons of their food. TimRey 17:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Demonic possession in Medicine

The phrase "who are facing a collective hysteria" taken in context was not grammatical (it appears to have been intended as the main clause). I have replaced it with "we are facing" which seems to best fit the intent. I also respelled "parts" as "parties". Shannock9 09:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Demonic possession in Fiction

I've added this heading where I think it goes: separating existing material; and added a reference to Hex (TV Series).

I patterned this edit on the Exorcism entry. However I am new to editing so please excuse (and fix it) if I have not got it quite right.

Shannock9 10:12, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Simon Magus a case of demonic posession?

Would someone explain to me why the case of Simon Magus offering to buy miraculous abilities from the Apostles counts as a case of demonic posession. Frotz661 07:23, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Demonic possession in Islam

I think someone should add Possession in Islam to the article. Demonic possession in Islam is a part of the faith, and believing in it is a must to be a Muslim. I think some should add that and thanks. --Stormingace 21:53, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

FYI for those interested in this -- Exorcism has a section on Exorcism in Islam -- 201.37.229.117 (talk) 15:36, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Demonic possession in Christianity

I have revised the Christianity section and the Bible section to better reflect the controversy about whether 'possession' is an appropriate term for use in relation to Christian understandings of the demonic. Eagleswings 10:56, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Demonic possession in Hinduism

Exorcism has a section on Exorcism in Hinduism -- Something on this should be added to Demonic possession. -- 201.37.229.117 (talk) 15:34, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bias

202.154.128.137 deleted a section that he or she considered biased, assumedly against the Catholic Church. I've reverted the edit, as I don't think it should go wholesale, but I feel that it probably could be said better. Many parts, i.e. "looking to expand its ever growing sphere of influence" seem pretty POV. Does anyone have the knowledge to re-write it? Masterofpsi (talk) 06:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tone

Certain parts of this article seem to go against the standards of an encyclopedia tone. For example, "From another point of view, those who accuse others of being demon-possessed have to be mentioned too" and "Certainly the language of "possession", like other mistranslations, has gained a life of its own, as is reflected in the title of this article." These aren't the type of statements I usually see in wikipedia articles.--24.255.171.220 (talk) 12:54, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality and Accuracy Disputed

Although there are numerous issues with this article (see below), I placed the "neutrality and accuracy" dispute tag specifically because the sources used for the section on Christianity are not valid. If anything these sources give an example of what one particular, contemporary, American group of Christians believes, but they are far from being representative of Christian beliefs throughout history. I'd like to request that someone re-write this section completely drawing on more neutral and factually verifiable source material.Yonderboy (talk) 04:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

REC

The line on the movie REC needs to be reworded, as the sequel indicated that the reverse is true, and demonic possession was the true cause. I'm unsure of how to reword it precisely without spoiling the second film, and preserving the idea that the original leaves it ambiguous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.101.224.248 (talk) 23:50, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction

I just had to modify the introduction after getting here to find some information. It's probably not the best modification possible but i had to add "alleged" and "presumed" referring to "control over a human form by a demon" and "other forms of possession" because reading the previous introduction it was clear that who wrote it treated possession by a demon as a matter of fact that happens everyday. I guess that a better job can be done but just treating the idea that demons control human beings every other day as a fact doesn't really fit an encyclopedia... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.178.66.170 (talk) 20:02, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

i see it's been reverted i guess that this article is in the hands of some christian "editor" who actually believes that demons take control of humans on a daily basis. i still think that presenting this as a given is just unencyclopedic —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.178.66.170 (talk) 13:57, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]