Talk:Combine harvester

A Lot More Work on Progression of Technology

First, we have the sickle bar mower, a sharp-toothed device moving back and forth between fixed point, thus allowing a shearing of the crop. (Note that ripe, dry crop stalks are far easier to cut than "green" ones) such devices are still in common usage--occasionally in roadside trimming, though much of this is done by a rotary mower which is little more than a very large version of a common 20" home lawn mower. Next, we have the Cyrus McCormick reaper which collected an amount of cut crop on a platform and dropped it in a pile This progressed rapidly to the binder which collected several hundred stalks of crop, and with the help of a mechanical knotter (we need to give credit to this inventor), tied them into a bundle. Improvements quickly allowed the collection of a number of bundles into a "shock." The Wichita State University sports teams logo is the Shockers....yes, it looks like a huge bundle of wheat (Kansas is the wheat state) with the grain heads drooping from the top. The next step is the development of a threshing machine, which, though mobile to move from site to site, is stationary in use, with a steam or gas/diesel/oil burning tractor to provide power via a large, flat drive belt, often over 100 feet in length. Workers threw bundles of ripe grain stalks into the feeding intake mechanism with pitch forks, from hopper trailers of wheat shocks which had been collected from the fields. A threshing crew could easily be a dozen or more men--at least four to six to collect the wheat in the field--two more to run the tractor and fetch water and coal if it was a steam tractor--a chief machine operator--a couple of guys to collect and haul the grain away...and certainly a couple more to tend to the horses. In the plains states of the US, the transition to self-propelled harvester combines coincided with the end of World War II. Early combines often had separate industrial engines and horsedrawn combines before the war obtained rotary power from the forward motion of a large wheel. Even a ground friction driven machine of small width would need at least six horses. I'll let someone else take it regarding the inside mechanicals of a harvester, which involves beating the incoming stalks, with blowers to remove the hulls "which the wind driveth away." (just like in Biblical times--Psalm 1:4) Moving and reciprocating table like devices "walk" the straw to the outlet of the machine, while the seeds fall down in a hopper, as their weight keeps them from going out with the straw. (Modern combines have electronic "eyes" that see seeds going over and not being collected properly, so the farmer/operator can make appropriate adjusments. So, can someone else help me with drawings and photographs? Homebuilding207.178.98.32 (talk) 01:38, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

John Appleby of Beloit, Wisconsin invented the knotter used on binders.

As an aside, a picture near the bottom of the article shows an old self propelled McCormick combine. Note the chimney-like structure that goes up from the engine's radiator. That's a screen on top. It's up way high to try and keep it out of the chaff that the combine produces. Chaff was a BIG problem as it clogged the radiators and lead to the engine overheating, ruining the engine. Nowdays you'll find the self-cleaning rotary screens in front of the radiators. Solved the problem nicely. As simple as it is, its extremely important.--71.38.174.228 (talk) 23:58, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Old talk

This page has more detail which we could mine. [1] Rmhermen 14:42 28 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Well, there's some. Kat 19:25 28 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I know that the leveling concept was invented by a man named "haywire" Hansen but can't find the company or reference too it online. I lived near his house however. If anyone can find info it's an intersting fact. His company was bought out long ago I believe. Jenshegg 23:45, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The thing I noticed is that about half the article is dedicated to sidehill combining but no mention of what happens to the crop after it is cut and conveyed into the throat is made. If I had time, the other things I would add would be (1) mention of price (these are extremely expensive machines) and how it forces many (at least American) farmers to hire out "custom combine" services and (2) a picture of a modern combine with a wide wheat header to demonstrate how wide a swath the machine can cut in one pass. Ari 19:04, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

(on 1)Swedish and danish versions mention a "high cost per hour" due to the short period of use and the high price.

(on 2) I saw an article mentioning that John Deere were the largest in march this year, thou this was in Denmark with small fields, and "just above 30 ft" doesn't seem that large to me...

This site list a 40 foot width as the largest in the world apparently. Another site talks about a effective 20 foot width as being common after allowing for overlap using more common equipment. Rmhermen 18:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately no pics in the article, so no link G®iffen 16:33, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Date of invention?

Alvin Toffler in his book Futureshock states that the combine ('a machine that mowed, treshed, tied straw into sheaves and poured grain into sacks') was invented in 1836. Any more references to that? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 14:49, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

That almost certainly would be false, as the reaper was only invented in 1831. The binder, which could tie sheaves, was only invented in the mid 1870s. It would take a large team of horses to supply the power needed to run even a primative combine. Also, in the mid 1830's I don't believe that a steam engines were sufficiently advanced either. --71.32.166.217 04:48, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Incomplete research by Mr. Toffler, obviously.Landroo 05:00, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Talking about the date, how did HV McKay get missed? The sunshine harvester was the first to be commercialised i think, and that was in 1885. Also i can only find 1 article on Hiran Moore, and all it says is he invented the combine. Poor evidence if you ask me. Shemefle 17:13, 31 October 2009 (AWST)

Just thought that I should add that there is no direct reference to why a "Combine-Harvester" is called a "Combine-Harvester". Of course the machine combines the previous separate processes but in which case one would have thought that it would have been called a "Combined-Harvester" and not a Combine. It would be interesting to know when the terminology came into common use. gilfrid 13:00, 13 September 2009 (GMT)

It combined reaping, and threshing (and eliminated the need for binding). --71.38.174.228 (talk) 02:04, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

First Self Propelled

I've got a reference which indicates that the first self propelled combine was a Gleaner, developed starting 1923. The article is from AGCO (Gleaner) and seems to be a bit coy about what it's saying so I'm reluctant to modify the main article. http://www.masseyferguson.com.au/agco/Gleaner/GleanerEAPAC/AboutGleaner/Heritage.htm

The main article states it was invented by Class in 1953. Does anyone out there know of a reference that would show a self-propelled Gleaner combine before 1953? This would invalidate the Class claim.--71.38.174.228 (talk) 02:04, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

what about Massey Harris (Model #20-21) combines approx 1938-39 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.201.218.72 (talk) 01:26, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

The first self propelled combine (of which at least I can give sufficient verifiable information) was manufactured in 1929 in Sunchales, Sta. Fe, Argentina. It is housed in a glass made shed in the same city and in the year 2000 it was refurbished together by the company CLAAS and NIDERA. Sorry, all the links in Spanish.. (by Reinsalkas) http://www.clarin.com/suplementos/rural/2000/01/29/c-00401r.htm http://www.cavaargentina.com/es/noticias-nacionales/argentina-ya-produce-su-primera-cosechadora-mecanica-de-uvas.html http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=651079 http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=416426403377 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.2.127.242 (talk) 17:20, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I did some search and this is what I found.

Sunshine Auto Header (Australia, ~1924): Here are some sentences from the book "Remarkable Australian Farm Machines: Ingenuity on the Land" by Graeme R. Quick: "They took out patents in 1923 and named it the Sunshine Auto Header...The first production Sunshine Auto Headers were released in 1924. They had a 12 foot (3.66 m) cut and were powered by a Fordson 25 HP engine...The Auto Header was produced at the Sunshine Works from 1924 through 1947, by which time a total of 1356 units had been made. In 1932, Massey-Harris had bought into Sunshine ..."
There are also many pictures in this book, old and also new ones, showing that there are still a few of them around in working condition.

Gleaner (USA, ~1923): I found some information in the company brochure "Gleaner 85th Anniversary" (http://www.agcoiron.com/fileUpload/GLEANER_85Years_Brochure.pdf):
Fordson-mounted, Patent No. 1,702,323 for the company in 1923, sales of around 100 combines, but then, it seems, the company switched to pull-type models, partly due to the "demise of the Fordson". I don't know what that means, maybe it refers to the fact that the production of Fordson tractors in the US ceased in 1928. Gleaner began making SP combines again only in the early 1950's.

Rotonia (Argentina, 1929): Sorry, I do not have any information in addition to what has been said above.

It seems that the first that was really successful in the US, was the Massey-Harris model 21 in the early 1940's, followed by the International Harvester 123-SP (introduced in 1942) and the John Deere 55 (1947). (http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org/farminginthe40s/machines_05.html).

So this statement about Claas being first in 1953 is obviously not true, even if it is written in an article of the London Times.

Maybe some writer can use this information to improve the article.
188.22.162.92 (talk) 21:08, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Correct Category?

I see the line [[Category:Engineering vehicles]] in the bottom and can't figure out what a combine does in engineering? G®iffen 16:33, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

RE: Old Talk

"Sidehill" machines were produced to deal with harvesting conditions found in the Northwestern US and in Canada. (I'm sure many other parts of the world use these features also, however, I will speak from an American's point of view).

Problems with conventional cylinder\walker machines when operated on hillsides are many. First, the cylinder and really, the entire seperator likes to deal with a consistant amount of material through-out it's entire width. When operating on a hillside, the material will tend to fall to the low side of the machine. This causes issues with slugging the cylinder. (Slugging a cylinder is a slang term where the operator has allowed the cylinder to become overloaded with material, or fed it green material. The distance between the rasp bars and the concave bars is typically 1/4" or less. The cylinder can not deal with the influx of green or too much material and it stops turning abruptly.) The cylinder can not process the material properly in a hillside condition, so this will leave grain in the head that will continue through the machine and be 'thrown-over' the straw walkers. The grain that is processed along with the straw and chaff material will continue to the shoe and overload the downhill side of the seives. The fan can not lift the bunched up straw and chaff properly. This causes throw over as the clean grain goes out the back with this overload of material.

The Sidehill feature is simply a method by which we allow the front axle to pivot independatly from the rest of the machine. Hydraulic cylinders are connected to both ends of the axle and can be adjusted to level the seperator up to about 15 degrees of axle pivot.(KF)

On Cost: In 1980, a brand new, mid-range "John Deere 7720 Titan" could be purchased from the dealership for $80,000 USD. That included the base model, and most features available at the time, such as a Hydrostatic drive, Secondary countershaft sensors, the "Sound-Gard" cab with air-conditioning and an AM/FM/Casette radio. The standard cross-auger 24' Model 224 grain platform header was an extra $15,000. The Deere 643 6-row corn head was around $20,000, and the Deere 653 Row Crop head was also close to $15,000. All 3 were needed if you planned on harvesting your own small grains like wheat or barley, and corn and milo or sunflowers. Total was nearly $130,000 USD.

In 1985, the same setup was $200,000 USD if all the headers were purchased new along with the new 7720 Titan II machine that by itself had gone to $120,000.

Today, a new Top line Deere 9660 WTS (conventional cylinder/walker machine) will cost you $250,000 by itself.

On the subject of headers. In 1920, Holt Caterpiller built a self-propelled machine that had a side mounted 50' wide canvas draper header. This is the largest header ever installed on any combine to-date in the US. Today, common widths are 18,20,24 and 30'. The largest headers are built by Macdon and Shelborn. The Macdon draper headers top out at 39' while the shelborne stripper headers top out at 32'. Deere provides a draper header to 36'.

Rotary vs. Conventional Design

When rotaries were first introduced, larger engines were considered the tradeoff for a better technology. It wasn't long before someone put two and two together, and realized that the same power applied to a conventional machine would produce similar performance. It seemed to make more sense to revert back to conventional machines with better straw-handling capabilities after that.

Perhaps that's why some manufacturers chose to stick to conventional designs, increasing their capacities, while the rotary combine fad was going on. Landroo 19:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Rotary History

Sperry-New Holland introduced rotary combines in 1975. The IH axial flow in 1977 was a copycat. Sperry-New Holland was the innovator of this technology. I've added a reference, but I've seen other references claim the IH was first. Having been around for awhile, and with a farming background I know personally that Sperry New-Holland was first. --71.38.174.228 (talk) 00:33, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

I believe the Roto Thresh was actually the first. http://www.wdm.ca/skteacherguide/WDMResearch/HarvestingDvpt.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.195.73.212 (talk) 03:44, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Depending on how you define a rotary combine, the Roto Thresh was a significant predecessor to most of the rotary designs which appeared in the late 1970s. Although each design had significant differences, they all essentially used the threshing cylinder for most of the separation. The Roto Thresh also used a separate centrifugal separator, apart from the cylinder for separating the chaff from the straw.Landroo (talk) 14:10, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

FYI - Image found on commons

[[Image:Jd9880sts.jpg|thumb|right|] - Leonard G. 00:45, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Quick-tach

An anon editor added 'quick-tach' to the Headers section:

Combines are equipped with quick-tach removable heads

Some very quick web research suggests that it was originally a Bobcat proprietary system, and therefore should be capitalised (see here).

However, I would suggest that this is a modern development, and should be noted lower down the page.

EdJogg 13:14, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Combine in popular culture

FIRST I think the Combine from the movie twister should be removed, because it just picks the thing up and drops it, it's like if a semi truck is lifted up in a tornado, you wouldn't have the movie Twister referenced in the article. SECOND consider adding Half-Life 2 because the empire that enslaves mankind is called the combine THIRD In an Itchy And Scratchy episode one of them is rnu over by a combine and Krusty says something about them having fun until getting run over by the thresher

Reply the hl2 really has no real reference. it is a similarity in the name but not in the actual meaning, combine as in enslaving and combine as in harvesting have no relevance to eachother —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.58.221.6 (talk) 04:05, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Three Processes

The beginning part of this article states that a combine performs 3 processes which were previously performed separately, but it doesn't state what these three processes are. This seems like a pretty critical fact and should be stated in the openning paragraph. Jlenthe (talk) 16:04, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

• This bothered me too. A quick pass over the article doesn't really explain either. --YixilTesiphon ^Talk_Contribs 01:35, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I am new to combine harvesters. I was wondering if it would be possible to add a cut away picture so as to show the inner workings of a combine? I can understand the operation as it is described, but a inside view would be helpful. Thanks though for a great article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.108.195.145 (talk) 09:45, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

The name "combine "

I didn't see it in the article. Why "combine"?