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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 208.38.215.21 (talk) at 02:27, 8 July 2011. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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the main article seems to make the assumption that democracy is the default setting for all human societies, that only such things as "noble lies" can explain the rule of an elite, whereas Plato's noble lie establishes the rule of a particular elite, the elite according to nature, that of the philosopher-kings. It also does not consider that all societies have such foundational myths, even democracies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.237.28.26 (talk) 19:05, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Although arguably not an organisation based on the noble lie, many of their members are believed to be from various church groups that no longer believe, but continue to espouse the beliefs as a form of what they believe to be positive social control and continue to hold positions in many religious organizations.

Is "believe" transitive or intransitive in this sentence? If it is transitive (that is, if "the beliefs" is its object") then a closing parenthetic comma is needed after "espouse" for clarity. Alternatively, dashes or parentheses could be used around "but continue to espouse". — 217.46.147.13 (talk) 11:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bot report : Found duplicate references !

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

  • "reason" :
    • Brian Doherty, [http://www.reason.com/9707/fe.bailey.shtml "Origin of the Specious: Why Do Neoconservatives Doubt Darwin?"], ''[[Reason Online]]'', July 1997, accessed [[February 16]], [[2007]].
    • [http://www.reason.com/news/show/30329.html Origin of the Specious, Reason Magazine (July 1997)]

DumZiBoT (talk) 14:15, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Great article!

This article, though short, is very high quality. I just want to share my appreciation with its editors. Thanks! —Jemmytc 23:52, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV violation to say the least. 128.205.48.211 (talk) 23:58, 28 October 2008 (UTC)SAB[reply]

The link to the-wawg-blog.org removed in the edit on 01:30, 31 October 2008, was re-added on 01:34, 22 December 2009. Yes, definitely not neutral. Removed again. 208.38.215.21 (talk) 02:27, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It has been suggested... by whom?

I added a [citation required] to the statement "It has been suggested that Kristol's and other neoconservatives' support of the war in Iraq is an example of that in action". By whom has it been suggested?

The Noble Lie as applies to guardians

Does anyone know where Plato said:

"The noble lie will inform them that they are better than those they serve and it is, therefore, their responsibility to guard and protect those lesser than themselves"?

This quote is in the article, but with "citation needed." I've been searching for a few hours, and I can't find it. I emailed a professor of ancient philosophy, and he denied that Plato ever said it. This is mind boggling because hundreds of websites and articles attribute this to Plato, but none can specify where in the Republic. Perhaps we should remove it from the article? Lumentenebra (talk) 20:05, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unverified quote removed

The quote "; for example:

"The noble lie will inform them that they are better than those they serve and it is, therefore, their responsibility to guard and protect those lesser than themselves. We will instill in them a distaste for power or privilege, they will rule because they believe it right, not because they desire it. . ."[citation needed]" has been removed from the "Plato's Republic" section because it has a lack of citation, and furthermore the quote is not present in any of multiple versions of Plato's Republic. If someone finds this removal to be in error, please reinsert the quote after "The Republic also seemed to say that different lies should apply to the governors;" along with the citation.

Lumentenebra (talk) 02:31, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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