Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Advanced SystemCare

Advanced SystemCare

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One of innumerable very minor system utilities with no encyclopedic significance. Fails WP:MILL as the clearest policy-based statement of their non-relevance here. These programs exist. Their basic existence is indeed supported by mention in magazine reviews. However that's all we get, and all we're ever likely to get. Re-stating this sort of basic "parts catalogue" content doesn't add to the body of an encyclopedia.

See WP:Articles for deletion/Advanced Vista Optimizer for another similar article. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:54, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 15:23, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~ Delete Deleters have convinced me on notability grounds. Article has been improved very recently with the addition of references, the most significant of which to me is the cnet 2010 top 10 download list, which I would consider RS. 68 million total downloads, 7th on the overall 2010 list, top of its product category (five antivirus apps ahead of it and a youtube downloader). The Another problem I have with the article is that it's still too much of a brochure--some non-neutral language and non-RS references, such as a company press release. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 16:07, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I find it odd you changed to delete. Your keep vote was correct. There is just one delete vote at the moment. Well, if you're going to vote delete, please specify a reason. Thanks. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 22:17, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Per WP:GNG. WP:MILL is not a policy, and I do not see any other good reason that this article should be deleted. I could be convinced that creation of and a merge with the publisher's page could be worthwhile per WP:PRODUCT, but we do not need an AfD for that. VQuakr (talk) 17:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Because notability is forever, sources need to establish, not merely that a product exists, but that it has abiding historical, technical, or cultural significance of the sort that will be remembered over generations and centuries. Software tied to the inner workings of a specific operating system will be hard pressed to meet such a test. Routine reviews establishing that this product is for sale and can be made to work do not establish that kind of significance. - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 20:36, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can you refer me to a policy which refers to requirement "that will be remembered over generations and centuries"? It is not in WP:NTEMP, this is for sure, and if it is not in any policy, it is not a valid argument in deletion discussion. Ipsign (talk) 13:53, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This product IS notable permanently. Please see the sources. This product IS modern. In what way is it ancient? Thanks. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 22:17, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Clearly there is notability in the article. I'm not sure about the delete voters. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 22:19, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Smerdis and WP:MILL. — Kudu ^~I/O~ 22:48, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There is nothing about mill here. WP:MILL is about residential, commercial, sports, banks and situations on streets. Are products part of mill? Wikipedia:Run-of-the-mill#What not to create. Please see my reply to Smerdis as well. Thanks. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 22:52, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closing admin: Looks like the delete voters here are clueless and dramatic. They are still voting to delete the page despite my responses to their vote(s). A strong suggestion is to look in and read the article. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 00:20, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. You appear to assume that we haven't. The article I read was about a bundled set of disk and system cleanup utilities for Windows XP, Vista, or 7. Microsoft has already set deadlines after which each of these operating systems will no longer be for sale. These deadlines are likely within my lifetime, probably yours as well. This utility suite is one of many similar products. This product just doesn't have encyclopedic significance; Wikipedia is not a software catalogue. - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 05:30, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

*Sigh* Windows 7 is the latest version of Windows, and yet you say it will no longer be for sale. Where did you read that Microsoft had said that? How do you know that this product will no longer be for sale? For example, take a look at the PC game Quake, it does not seem to work on newer versions of Windows. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 08:10, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: Both these products are like the anti-virus software such as AVG. Would you say that AVG has temporary notability? -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 10:34, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This logic doesn't fly per WP:OTHERSTUFF. Ipsign (talk) 13:53, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

AVG (software)'s subject is a range of products, and they're broad enough in total to make some claim of significance. Even then, WP:PRODUCT often favours an article on the company, rather than their product. There is no AVG article of comparable narrow scope to Advanced SystemCare - such an article would be much narrower than our actual AVG, and similarly a target for AfD. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:58, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And, for what it's worth, Windows 7 has already been given a cutoff date starting in 2015.[1] Dozens of similar products existed for Windows 95 and 98 as well. Some of the businesses that made them are still around, but for the most part those products have been forgotten. I don't see anything that suggests this product won't share a similar fate. - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 13:32, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with this kind of logic; while any subject on Wikipedia now is likely to be forgotten, arguments "I don't see anything that suggest this product won't..." are dangerously close to trying to invent crystal ball; WP:N is much simpler, and doesn't require conjecturing; it is based on 3rd-party coverage which exists right now, and is either satisfied or not. In this particular case (IMHO) it is on satisfied side. Ipsign (talk) 13:47, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete because of the notability arguments above. I would suggest that the content is refactored so it can be included in a List, perhaps something (or a new page). I have no objection to the content being included in the encyclopedia but I don't think it is correct as a stand-alone article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bill (talk • contribs) 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Comment - I think most of the delete votes are based on Ihcoyc's reasonings, which aren't very clear for reasonings to delete. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 11:17, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but with severe cleanup. IMHO, unlike WP:Articles for deletion/Advanced Vista Optimizer, it passes threshold of WP:N. While Guardian ref is very questionable for the purposes of WP:N (come on, it is answer to question from reader), and alleged ref to WashingtonPost is actually a ref to PCWorld, but reviews by PC World, CNet and PC Advisor IMHO can satisfy WP:N, though very severe cleanup to satisfy WP:NOTADVERTISING will certainly be necessary. Ipsign (talk) 13:40, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]