Talk:Anwar Ibrahim sodomy trials

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Please add {{WikiProject banner shell}} to this page and add the quality rating to that template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Law B‑class

	Law portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Please add {{WikiProject banner shell}} to this page and add the quality rating to that template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Malaysia B‑class Mid‑importance

	Malaysia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Malaysia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Malaysia and Malaysia-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MalaysiaWikipedia:WikiProject MalaysiaTemplate:WikiProject MalaysiaMalaysia articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

1998 trial

The section on the 1998 trial is not comprehensive and seems to contain very random information. I think we need to focus on improving this section and making it more complete.Monkeyassault (talk) 00:16, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Too many sections

There seem to be way too many sections that do not appear to all have rational titles or flow that makes sense. Monkeyassault (talk) 00:41, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Because several individuals thought it was a good idea to transfer the information from the main article - Anwar Ibrahim and bringing it here. I have no issues about making this article much more coherent and easier reading flow. At the same time its is in the best interest to try to retain as much information on the article as possible without deleting the information. If some of the information does not have proper referencing, its in the best interest to find the necessary sources. Roman888 (talk) 18:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Move 2008 trials

Shall we move the 2008 trial to the top? Having the events run in chronological order makes a lot of sense but so does putting the most recent info a the top as most people will come here in order to get info on the second trial. How should we handle this? Monkeyassault (talk) 05:16, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Leave the format as it is until there is sufficient consensus or agreement to move the 2008 trial to the top of the page. If there is enough material added for the 2008 trial in the near future, it might be better to split both the 1998 and 2008 trials to 2 separate articles. Roman888 (talk) 18:51, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. I was just thinking the same thing about creating two articles. Monkeyassault (talk) 02:04, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Length of this article

The overwhelming level of detail and increasing length of this page are troubling. The detail, such as including tweets, seems to me to run into the problem of WP:NOTNEWS. The subject of the article is a WP:BLP and the very controversial and even speculative nature of this article concerns me. Even without that, I think the essay WP:TLDR should be considered. I posted a request for an opinion about this article on WP:BLP/N but so far no one has responded. Before I look at how to perhaps streamline this article, I am interested in hearing from others working on this page intend for this article to do. Maybe then I can contribute to it meaningfully. --Spinosaurus aegyptiacus (talk) 17:41, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have no issues if you wish to streamline the article in the near future. If you have issues with certain sections, please bring in up in this discussion. The issue of WP:NOTNEWS runs into a lot of challenges, as a lot of Malaysian articles or news are controversial to say the least. Its difficult to find an objective or neutral point of view, government-run mainstream media vs independent online news media. If there are areas which are not properly referenced or sourced, then by all means you are free to bring it up. But I would take issue if you delete whole sections without discussing it first. One possibility is that we should split the 1998 and the 2008 allegations into separate articles. This is if we run into a situation that this page takes a longer time to load when trying to edit it. Roman888 (talk) 18:52, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I made some effort to start streamlining some of the 2008 section today, making it easier for people who are not following it very closely to understand. I am also being careful to make sure the text matches what is in the sources, especially because of WP:BLP. One concern that I have which I have not yet tried to deal with is that the section goes into exacting detail abou courtroom events, such as motions filed and counter-motions and various arguments. An overview of the issues in play is certainly important, but a play-by-play is too much for anyone who wants to understand what is going on to read. If someone wants to know every last detail, that is one reason we link to the sources. So, I am not going to start on that just yet, but that is going to be something I look at soon. --Spinosaurus aegyptiacus (talk) 17:54, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright problem

This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:46, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

accuser's name

The accuser's surname/patronymic is a little confusing. The article refers to him as 'Saiful' which doesn't seem to make sense as a complete name, but I don't speak Melayu... Perhaps a Melayu speaker can comment on whether "Saiful" makes sense by itself in Malaysia.

'Saiful' is Arabic for "Sword of the..." and in Arabic is invariably followed by a noun; it's incomplete as a name without the noun. For example "Saiful Diin" "Sword of the Faith", or "Saiful Islam", etc... The alleged sodomee's name is apparently "Saiful Bukhari" which, somewhat confusingly/amusingly means "Sword of the Steamy One", or more likely "Sword of the Guy From Bukhar".

Shouldn't he be cited as Saiful Bukhari rather than just Saiful? --jackbrown (talk) 10:07, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Technical intelligence

The information about technical intelligence establishing his 2008 activities is in the 'international reactions' section, because that intelligence was gathered and analysed by non-Malaysia sources. Is there any case for it to be fit in some other part?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.151.54.162 (talk • contribs)

Singapore hasn't been part of Malaysia since the 1960s and the second trial didn't even commence till 2010