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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 137.186.41.70 (talk) at 14:38, 12 July 2012 (→‎Reliable Medical Sources: No contradiction iz here.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Comments

Okay, so I am heading the movement to keep these substances from being pigeon-holed into S-Methylmethionine. Someone else tried to put some irrelevance, mostly Cheney, into that article. It's archived here. 137.186.41.70 (talk) 19:57, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article title

This article needs reliable sources that show that Vitamin U is the prominent name for this substance and not something else like S-Methylmethionine Sulfonium Chloride as in: Lee, Na Young; Park, Kui Young; Min, Hye Jung; Song, Kye Yong; Lim, Yun Young; Park, Juhee; Kim, Beom Joon; Kim, Myeung Nam (2012). "Inhibitory Effect of Vitamin U (S-Methylmethionine Sulfonium Chloride) on Differentiation in 3T3-L1 Pre-adipocyte Cell Lines". Annals of Dermatology. 24 (1): 39–44. doi:10.5021/ad.2012.24.1.39. PMC 3283849. PMID 22363154.   —Chris Capoccia T⁄C 20:10, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That comes through with the fact that most of the substances in the article are not clearly related to methylmethionine, and yet they are both: components of cabbage and beneficial. For example, Broccoli sprouts are category:antibiotics with action action against Helicobacter Pylori. The relevant chemical is not strong enough in cabbage to cause an in vitro effect. I bring up H. Pylori, because the conventional treatment for peptic ulcer iz antibiotics. In other words, if you could not afford a Gastroenterolgist, you might get away with wikipedia and B.S. :) 137.186.41.70 (talk) 20:58, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable Medical Sources

This article needs reliable medical sources like systematic reviews and not primary research. If the substance called Vitamin U is the same as S-Methylmethionine Sulfonium Chloride, then reliable sources should be provided about its benefit or lack therof because Cheney's claim of benefit would be contradicted by Kopinski, JS; Fogarty, R; McVeigh, J (2007). "Effect of s-methylmethionine sulphonium chloride on oesophagogastric ulcers in pigs". Australian Veterinary Journal. 85 (9): 362–7. doi:10.1111/j.1751-0813.2007.00197.x. PMID 17760939.   —Chris Capoccia T⁄C 20:19, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Since the experiment had negligible rezults, except in the case of highly-diseased pigs, and the experiment used S-Methylmethionine Sulfonium Chloride (SMMSC), Cheney's claim of benefit in Cabbage juice would be irrelevant if Cabbage juice did not contain SMMSC. I do not know how much SMMSC cabbage juice contains, so I am not equipped to say how much relation is between Kopinski and Cheney. It's certainly not a contradiction, though: Both got pozitiv rezults. 137.186.41.70 (talk) 14:38, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relevance

137.186.41.70, you keep adding more and more stuff that is only tangentially related to S-Methylmethionine Sulfonium Chloride (Vitamin U). Are you trying to write an article about health benefits of cabbage? Or are you trying to write an article about S-Methylmethionine Sulfonium Chloride (Vitamin U)? I think only the first sentence is on topic, and the rest of the article is just about health benefits of cabbage.  —Chris Capoccia T⁄C 14:15, 10 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you just want to write about health benefits of cabbage, maybe the best place would be Cabbage#Medicinal properties.  —Chris Capoccia T⁄C 14:23, 10 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In many instances, cabbage is not the best way to go. While it contains all of these isothiocyanates and indoles, the most helpful ones are not always present in sufficient amounts in cabbage to contain a medical effect. As I said on your talk page, I would be willing to redirect to Brassicaceae#Medicinal_Properties.137.186.41.70 (talk) 21:16, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

Vitamin U → Methylmethionine Sulfonium Chloride – According to the NCI Thesaurus, Methylmethionine Sulfonium Chloride is the preferred name. Vitamin U and S-Methymethionine Chloride are among the synonyms.  —Chris Capoccia T⁄C 18:23, 10 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with the dictionary is that I do not see Cheney accepting such a narrow definition of the healthy chemicals in cabbage, and I see lots of other researchers checking these things out. 137.186.41.70 (talk) 21:09, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The other problem with requesting a discussion of the move is that I've already offerred to copy the content into Brassicaceae#Medicinal_Properties and redirect Vitamin U to that place. No need is to create orphans with some bot that tries to make wikipedia into a vote full of people who won't even look at the talk page to see the whole discussion. 137.186.41.70 (talk) 21:14, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Recognizability – Titles are names or descriptions of the topic that are recognizable to someone familiar with (though not necessarily expert in) the topic.

Vitamin U is all over the web. There are even pages that do not accept methylmethionine.137.186.41.70 (talk) 21:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Naturalness – Titles are those that readers are likely to look for or search with as well as those that editors naturally use to link from other articles. Such titles usually convey what the subject is actually called in English.

Vitamin U is cabbage juice in Cheney's articles. methylmethionine is only one component of cabbage juice. It is a very natural name for something that is very naturopathic. In other words, moving content from methylmethionine to Vitamin U would be better. I am not interested in doing that, yet.137.186.41.70 (talk) 21:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Precision – Titles usually use names and terms that are precise enough to indicate accurately the topical scope of the article, but not overly precise.

Vitamin U was named after Ulcers. It is an anti-Ulcerogenic factor. While I haven't found much in gastroenterology regarding isothiocyanates and indoles...it might well be that when I write a header with gastroenterology, I will be left with nothing to write about except methylmethionine.137.186.41.70 (talk) 21:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Conciseness – Titles are concise, and not overly long.

One proposal, "methylmethionine sulfonium chloride" is very long, and it should probably be redirected here if it is ever created. The proposal I put on the table is two words.137.186.41.70 (talk) 21:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Consistency – Titles follow the same pattern as those of similar articles. Many of these patterns are documented in the naming guidelines listed in the Specific-topic naming conventions box above, and ideally indicate titles that are in accordance with the principles behind the above questions.

The chemicals already in the article cover several fields of medical expertise, and I suspect that doctors would welcome something that sounds very simple, however complex chemical components of Brassicaceae and their decomposition products may turn out to be. I believe they deserve their own article, yet I hav offerred to move.137.186.41.70 (talk) 21:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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