Talk:National communism

Please discuss changes here. This is not original research, reference was there. Paki.tv (talk) 10:05, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Precisely.Harrypotter (talk) 07:10, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Communist Party of Quebec

From looking at the page for Communist Party of Quebec, I would say this is a relevant link. It would be advisable to discuss the matter here before taking the matter further.Harrypotter (talk) 09:52, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

In what sense? Is there any reference that links the present-day PCQ to the 1920s National Communist groups? --Soman (talk) 10:41, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

HI, I have relabelled the section "see also", which i hope you will accept as being more appropriate. Please read the page again: the issue is that CPQ is accusing the CPC of national chauvinism, and defends the independence Quebec, even in the unlikely events of a Bolshevik coup in Canada. Do you think that National Bolshevism should also be under the see also heading?Harrypotter (talk) 21:39, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

I would argue against both inclusions in "see also". 1) National Bolshevism is similar to "National Communism" in name only. 2) There are many contemporary cases were there are disagreements between different communist groups regarding national projects (there are plenty of groups in Spain, for example, that oppose the main PCE). This is however actually rather different from the national question in the breakup of the Russian empire. Canadian-Quebois relations are very different from, say, Russian-Turkestani relations 85 years ago. Simply having disagreements between CPC and PCQ does not create an organic link to the National Communism of the days of the October revolution. --Soman (talk) 02:57, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I think you make some good points.However I feel as regards the similarity of National Bolshevism to National Communism being in name only, this is why the "See also" section can help the querent find the information they are looking for. The other more general point would suggest that a page entitled Communism and nationalism. This proved useful with Anarchism and nationalism. Do you think this might be a useful way forward?Harrypotter (talk) 09:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

In the Eastern Bloc

It looks like, since my last visit, this article has been doctored to exclude the most crucial aspects of "national communism" as defined by modern political science (i.e. nationalist communism yo-yoing away from the Soviet Union in Poland, Romania, Albania, Yugoslavia etc.) and focuses on obscure references to one avatar of Leninist dogma. As for the application of the term, try google books - you'll see the term used particularly (if not exclusively) for the former policy in works by Zbigniew Brzezinski, Howard Machin, Robert Bideleux, Ian Jeffries, Robert V. Daniels, Vladimir Tismăneanu, Eric D. Weitz, Chalmers A. Johnson, Henry F. Carey, Vintilă Mihăilescu, Ilia Iliev, Slobodan Naumović, etc. etc. Please, at the very least, restore the content that used to be here! Dahn (talk) 06:39, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Lenin as National Communist

I have reverted the suggestion that the decision to set up the Russian Communist Party means that the Bolsheviks can be described as National Communists because this simply seems to be original research, rather than relating to any documented evidence.Leutha (talk) 17:43, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

--First "National Communists" were Russians--

Strictly speaking there could be no "national communism" before the Bolsheviks took power and declared themselves "Communists." As of that moment (march 1918) since the Russian Bolsheviks controlled only Russian territory they logically must be called "national communists." What also must be considered is that before they took power Lenin's Bolshevik Social Democrats were also quite unlike any other European SD party becuase they were RUssians. That is, their membership was overwhelming Russian and thier leaders adopted elements of Marxism in response to imperial Russian conditions that obviously were unlike coniditions in western and eastern Europe. Most significant: bank robbing to fund activities, conspiracy to avoid arrest, organization at place of work not residence, membership contingent on full time organizational/party work. The fact that almost, but not all, Anglo-American scholars because of Russocentrism or whatever ignored this point should not be an excuse to continue repeating thier error.

Firstly I would suggest that the unsigned in exotic starts an account and uses Tildes to sign comments.

Secondly I would suggest they solo ok at why the use of references is so important to provide evidence for what they say. These references can be in whatever language.

On to the content of the edits. The comments above do not stand careful scrutiny. Alexander Bogdanov, co-founder of the Bolsheviks was Bylorussian, though this had no relevance to the subsequent split between Lenin and Bogdanov. Trotsky himself was Jewish as was Rosa Luxemburg who had membership of several Social Democratic parties including the Russian SDLP. Stalin himself was, of course Georgian. It is correct to say that the RSDLP had its own characteristics, just as Austromarxism reflected the conditions of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. However, if the RCP(b) is to be included, then we need references, otherwise the contribution will be seen as "Original Research" and removed.Leutha (talk) 08:18, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

The individual ethnic identity of bolsheviks matters little if they identified with imperial russian culture, and spoke and thought in Russian, and were advocates of political economic and adminstrative centralization within the imperial Russian space centered on the old imperial capital. Stalin was born Georgian Hitler was born Austrian but they chose to identify and work within the Russian and German political sphere. ALso note that empires do not have "ethnic minorities." Indians or Africans are not called "ethnic minorities" in the British or any other empire."Ethnic minorities" in the Russian empire were Russians in the non-Russian territories, Muslims in Russian territories, and Jews --scattered in all territoies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.150.49.145 (talk) 13:37, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

1. Your comments would be easier to keep up with if you created a user account and used the four Tilden as a signature

1. One problem I have is that many of the comments above have little relationship with what actually happened. In fact the British used a complex system of scheduled castes and backward tribes as part of their system of divide and rule. It is interesting that Lenin recruited Sergey Oldenburg to the Boleshevik regime using their shared memories of Lenin's older brother to cement their relations. Perhaps you are familiar with the work of the Commission for the Study of the Tribal Composition of the Population of the Borderlands of Russia?
2. Thanks for the reference to the work of Stephen Velychenko. Certainly his new book is awaited with great interest, but unfortunately the only reference to it on the www is your addition to the article. If you have had acces to the manuscript, perhaps you could use the references that Stephen cites to show the use of "National Communism" in texts currently available.Leutha (talk) 19:19, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Good Start

This entry now has a good beginning. It must be expanded next to include eastern Europe, Asia and Africa.