Talk:Bobby Flay

Is it opinion, I'll give you that Calton, but any fact is indeed an opinion that a majority of people believe. The stated item in this article that every piece of equipment is sacred in Japan is a crock and the real reason Morimoto was upset is mostly because of unprofessionalism but also because of Flay's standing and popularity in the world dispite his lack of true culinary experience. Half of the items under "Publicity" are opinion. It is truth that his parents are rich, his father was one of the owners of the restaurant he claims to have worked at. He has used cocaine as well, though I won't spout that on a page. Most encylpedia articles are fair and balanced, something wikipedia has never obtained. As what is stated here about Mr. Flay is mostly half-truths skewed to make him look good, I felt a bit of well known opinions should be placed as to balance things out.

To replace the sections that were removed for anyone who is intereted:

"In the eyes of the American public Flay is a hero to many, though in the eyes of true culinary professionals he is an afront to the cooking senses. Morimoto's anger was not just because of flay standing on a cutting board, but because of his rashness and narrisicism, two of Flay's prominent traits. He gained both his fame and cooking reputation by using his family's money to gain culinary certifications and open his restaurants. Though self confidence is a large part of most chef's lives, Flay often goes to disrespectful extremes and has a superiority complex, thinking all other chefs are inferior. Though it is a very blunt statement, to most chefs he is a rich kid celebrity with little cooking prowess." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zanduar (talk • contribs) 05:18, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

It's probably a very good idea to leave your contribution as a very telling example of how NOT to write an encyclopedia. To whine about how Wikipedia is not "fair and balanced" while trying to fob this off as a counter-example borders on hilarious.

but any fact is indeed an opinion that a majority of people believe. As Wolgang Pauli reportedly once said, "That's not right; that's not even wrong."

But regardless of whatever idiosyncratic -- and in my opinion self-serving -- definition you give for the word "fact", policy here is Neutral Point of View, "a fundamental Wikipedia principle which states that all articles must...represent...views fairly and without bias." To quote:

The neutral point of view is a means of dealing with conflicting views. The policy requires that, where there are or have been conflicting views, these are fairly presented, but not asserted. All significant points of view are presented, not just the most popular one. It is not asserted that the most popular view or some sort of intermediate view among the different views is the correct one. Readers are left to form their own opinions.

As the name suggests, the neutral point of view is a point of view. It is a point of view that is neutral - that is neither sympathetic nor in opposition to its subject.

Debates are described, represented, and characterized, but not engaged in. Background is provided on who believes what and why, and which view is more popular. Detailed articles might also contain the mutual evaluations of each viewpoint, but studiously refrain from stating which is better. One can think of unbiased writing as the cold, fair, analytical description of debates. When bias towards one particular point of view can be detected the article needs to be fixed.

This is the actual meaning of fair and balanced writing, not equal amounts of opinion cancelling each other out.

In any case, if you're going to pretend to speak for "true culinary professionals", we come to a couple of other Wikipedia principles: Verifiability and Citing sources: show what you say has some backing, and where you got it. Did the True Culinary Professionals (is there a certification program?) issue a press release that I missed?

For example, Morimoto's anger was not just because of Flay standing on a cutting board, but because of his rashness and narrisicism [sic], two of Flay's prominent traits.: how do you know this (short of mind-reading) and can you prove it? Any answer which uses the verbs "think" or "believe", or the adverbs "clearly" or "obviously" constitutes opinion and is a complete non-starter. Any variation on "someone told me" falls under yet another Wikipedia no-no, "No original research".

Work on it. --Calton | Talk 07:55, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I understand fair and balanced and factual, of which this is not:

"Not realizing that all cooking instruments are sacred in Japan, he greatly angered Iron Chef Morimoto who criticized his professionalism, saying that Flay was "not a chef". After all this, Flay lost the battle, but the rivalry between him and Morimoto had just begun.

Flay challenged Morimoto to a rematch in Morimoto's native Japan. In this battle, at the end of the hour, Flay threw his cutting board across the room and stood on the counter yet again to raise the roof with the audience. This time, Flay won. Though they share a heated past, Flay and Morimoto, who are both Iron Chefs on Iron Chef America, are now friends."

Cooking equipment is "sacred" to all chefs, not just the Japanese. A knife or cutting board shouldn't be mistreated or misused. In Japan many things are "sacred" as its the Japanese culture to show respect and honor in almost everything they do and someone from Japan would be equally upset if you misused a telephone or ate food quickly without tasting it. The exact quote from Morimoto is "He is not a chef! In Japan, the cutting board and the knife is sacred. NO, he is not a chef!"

In the second paragraph we see pure hersay, that Morimoto and Flay are friends, something that only the two of them would know. Most likely they aren't, but that Morimoto played nice on camera to show respect and not dishonor himself.

I could disect the rest of the article, which has alot of minor flaws when it comes to facts, but I have more important things to do.

As for true culinary professionals, yes there are a few organizations, the ACF being one of them. They have certification programs and do talk about the current culinary world, especially the way the modern public views us because of TV chefs (who are generally not chefs at all). It would be absurd to think that a letter was sent out mudslinging Flay, but if you ask a chef who knows or has met Flay (which I have) then almost all of them will tell you things far worse then what I've mentioned here. Zanduar 17:03, 2 May 2006 (UTC)